#001: On the very first episode of The Move Makers Podcast, my guest is Stephanie Harvey. Popularly known as “missharvey” throughout the esports world, Stephanie is a five-time winning Counter Strike world champion and we discuss her nearly two decades in the space, how she’s leading change as the Director of Development for CLG and how we can all be better cyber citizens.
#001: On the very first episode of The Move Makers Podcast, my guest is Stephanie Harvey. Popularly known as “missharvey” throughout the esports world, Stephanie is a five-time winning Counter Strike world champion and we discuss her nearly two decades in the space, how she’s leading change as the Director of Development for CLG and how we can all be better cyber citizens.
(bright music)- What's going on with Valorant in the women's circuit over there, like this is the conversation a year ago, a year and a half ago, that would be completely different if you didn't have all these organisations signing women and caring for women and not using women as necessarily always tokenizing them.- Hello and welcome to the Move Makers podcast. I'm your host, Audrey Adair. And in this podcast, it's all about the incredible women trailblazing the video game industry and covering the unique moves they've made throughout their careers to get to where they are today. My very first move maker is a five time winning Counter-Strike World Champion, a Forbes 30 under 30 recipient, winner of a Lifetime Achievement Award from the eSports Awards. And most recently a Tempest Award hall of fame recipient. Wow! Stephanie Harvey popularly known as Missharvey is now the director of development for CLG leading the company's inclusion efforts all while managing a demanding content creator and hosting schedule. She also has her own cyber citizenship company, which we dive into throughout this podcast. And I get really excited about conversations like the one that you're about to listen to with Stephanie, because she is an amazing role model and a natural leader with an unmatched energy and passion for doing good and making an impact on the future of the e-sports industry. So let's not waste any time. Let's dive right in, Stephanie Harvey.(bright music) Thanks so much for joining the podcast. I'm so excited for the opportunity to chat with you today. How are you feeling?- I'm great. Super excited to be here. I think we have this. We maybe having the same microphones so I fell like we're in the same studio, you know.(both laugh)- We're in different parts of the world, but you'd connected through our microphones. I appreciate that. Awesome.! Well, why don't you kick us off by introducing yourself to everyone?- Yeah, for sure. My name is Stephanie Harvey. I've known in the gaming world as Missharvey, French Canadian in my mid-thirties. I say that because I'm from the gaming world, especially e-sports world and in the e-sports world, mid-thirties is really old.(both laugh) So I started video games when I was a really kid, but pretty much I've been competing on The Circuit for a long time. I've been in e-sports for 18 years, from professional player, to making games, to now helping to run an organisation owned by the Madison Square Garden called CLG and overall just doing a lot of things.- You do a lot. I had no idea. I knew you've been in for over a decade, but 18 years you've been competing? Yes, is that correct?- Yeah. So I started competing in '03 in a game called Counter-Strike. And I would say, I haven't really competed in the pandemic as kind of like post retirement now, I don't know.(both laughing)- That's funny because I'm also in my mid-thirties.- We're old.- We're old.- There were things that I say now where I'm like, is that a boomer thing? Am I a boomer? Like, am I ageing myself too much? I'm very aware. And I spend way too much time on TikTok. And now I get like, served like gen Z versus millennial like videos. And I'm like, wait, millennials used to be like the generation and now for old, like what happened? And it happens so fast.- You know how I know I'm old. When people say, am I a boomer? I'm a boomer. I think it's ageism. So I'm such a boomer.(both laugh) I'm still a teenager at heart, I think. I'm definitely not the most responsible humans sometimes. Okay, so what conventional mainstream people think is responsible it's probably about me. I think I'm responsible and I'm imbalanced in my own ways. And that's what I learned throughout my life is that there's no mould, society puts us in a mould, but you're meant to break it and find what works for you. And I'm definitely not somebody that has irregular routine or regular mental age and I'm okay with it. (laughs)- No, I love it. I mean, for someone who describes himself as not the most responsible, you have a lot of really incredible accomplishments under your belt. So I'd say continue setting your own mould and demonstrating the success that can come from being irresponsible. (laughs) I love that. On the show I really want to talk about, I want to give you the platform to talk about your story straight from you and really be able to share what it is that you feel like really makes your career. So what to you was kind of that first move into e-sports, into being a pro player. Was that something that you would kind of set out to do or did it just kind of happen?- Yeah, so it's, I mean, it definitely just happened because when I was a teenager there was absolutely... Like it wasn't even a thing to say, I want to work in video games, let alone say, I want to be a professional gamer. That was not even conceivable. There were some like reports and news reports from Korea where, "Oh my God, it's the thing over there." And they were anything about in some of the movies, but that was just like really obscure, really weird. And no one in their right mind had that as a goal, as a dream. You know, if you ask like the little girls and boys down, like, what's your dream? When you get older, it was definitely like very basic things like, well, not basic, obviously being a doctor is not basic, but when I like traditional jobs, I would say. Now that has been challenged, right? You can see little kids say, I want to be a YouTube content creator or whatever. And that wasn't like anything that was possible then, you can create your own job. You couldn't create your own market, you couldn't... Business ventures were really risky and people just told you to stay at one place all your whole life and build up your retirement plan and then cash out, right. So that was kind of the way that I was raised in. And probably you we're the same age. And so I never thought about being a professional gamer, but I did start gaming when I was really young. And it was like, for me, my parents treated it like music, like arts, like sports. It was just another activity. And it probably helped, cause it was never treated as a negative thing in my household. Gaming was actually positive. Like my parents encouraged me gaming,"Hey, we don't want to play our games tonight. You can go in the basement and play some games." And I was like, "Yeah!" You know, like it was a positive thing. So it wasn't until I was a teenager though, that it became more serious that I saw that I could compete in video games. Even if it was just for fun, like, think about it, your local I would say, something that could be really similar. Like, let's see if you play pool, like your local pool tournament. And you're like, oh yeah, you compete versus other pool clubs and whatnot, but it's still very local and very not niche, but it's not like you don't think, oh, I'm going to be a professional pool player because I won the tournament in my city, right. So it kind of was like that until you saw that there was an international tournament and that you could eventually get there. And then you're like, "Oh, damn. Okay. If I won the local tournament or if I'm getting better at the local tournament why don't I give it a shot. Like the Toronto tournament or the New York tournament. And you know, it kind of became something that you would do on the side after work. You would practise with your friends and try to compete and whatnot. And you would meet on weekends with these people in real life and you would go to the movies and whatnot, and then you would ask the movies you'd go home and play with them online, you know. Or spending all night or at a local LAN centre
until like 7:00 AM and just play games all morning. So it really was just an activity. Definitely not thinking about doing that as a job, like not even close. (laughs)- Which I think is incredible because I just love those stories where it's like, this is my passion. You know, this is something that we celebrated at home and I was able to find a local community and be supported too'cause there was something I've had a conversation recently where it was never negative in my household, but it was more of like,"Okay, you've played for five hours now outside." Like, that was kind of the thing where it's like, just I think that was the thinking around it it was like, it's too much time in front of a screen. Whereas now I think, especially as millennials become parents millennials are like quintessential gamers, right? So like we're going to be playing with our kids and you know, there's going to be kind of that comradery that you experienced, but that was pretty rare for that time. You know, so my parents didn't play with me. They liked to watch me play and they liked that I was home playing games and you know, it gave me something to do, but there was still that kind of like, okay, like there was always like a limit, I guess, to the play. And now I think it's definitely evolved and the thinking around it has evolved too.- Yeah, it was a perfect storm for me because my parents, I love gaming, like just overall, like board games, sports. Like I just, I was someone that loved interactivity and my parents, it's just their culture
after like six, 7:00 PM they zone out, they like sit in front of the TV and my mom would do like laundry or whatever. And my dad would like relax and there's no more of a gaming, no more playing. And then they hated me having friends over and they wanted me home. So I was kind of stuck where I'm home I can't play, I'm not watching their TV shows because I'm way too young and I don't have a siblings. So I'm kind of like, well, what am I supposed to do? I was just straight A students and stuff. And I'm stuck at home after 8:00 PM or 7:00 PM every day. And then my parents were like, we'll just go play video games. And I was like, okay. You know, so it was my way of having interactivity without, and continuing to be challenged and that's what I love, being challenged competing and whatnot, but even with really basic games, like even if it was "Tetris", I was like compete versus myself or "Pinball", like try to beat my own scores or at the time I would do things. And I just became very competitive with myself because that's the only person I was hanging out with, I guess.(both laugh)- I can very much relate to that. But it's funny my I had a "Sega Genesis" that was like the game that like the console I had and my grandmother gave it to me, which I always think is like hilarious, my grandmother gave it to me. And she would always give me the Disney games that came out in which you're always like self play.- "Lion King".- "Lion King" that's a hard game, that's a fun game, but like, I only made it past the stampede level, like three times. (laughs)- Yeah. I think that I've never made it through that. And I think I've played this game, like, I don't know, a hundred hours, (laughs) like I wasn't kid and just played it so much. (laughs) Ah, that was so cool.- I remember being really proud of myself. The only game that I ever was able to like beat and play to completion was "Beauty and the Beast". (laughs) And you're literally-- Never played that one.- It's not a challenging game, but it's, you're like collecting books and roses throughout like the entire story. It's really, at that time it was very fun for me. I really enjoyed it, but I played all the Disney games.- "Aladdin", "Jungle Book".- Yes, they were all so fun. I love that, but that was the console I had. So it was always Sega and Disney. (laughs) So, but anyway... Going back to kind of starting your career in e-sports and starting competitive play, what was like, did you have a breakout move or like something that really solidified you as like a pro player? Were you able to say like, this is what I'm doing, this is the path that I want to pursue.- Poof! No, 'cause it was always very blurry, right? It's not like from it, like, it's not like a 2010, you all of a sudden I got offered a million dollar and I quit my job and it was clear. It never really happened like that. It was so progressive from like having my first contract meeting I, literally meant that I just had a name, a team name in front of my name and I competed to having a first sponsor, like headset sponsor or my first travel paid or my first salary, which was a $100 per month. You know, like, progressing throughout that lasted like 10 years.- Wow!- And then we're in 2013 and I'm still not really paid much a month. I already have five world cups at the time. I had like four world cup championship wins and I'm working and I have a successful video game designer career and which comes out or it didn't come out in 2013, but to which it really exploded I feel around that time. And that's when I became more and more, made more and more money out of competition, but still then, I mean more money streaming and doing content creation than competing. So at some point I was like, yeah, I'm a professional gamer, but I'm not paid to be a professional gamer. And I spent 40, 60 hours a week, the last 10 to 15 years of my career not paid just to have a gold medal around my neck once a year. And so, yeah, I was a professional, but it was as professional as you could be. And then it hit like very recently, I think I would say like four or five years ago, that's when I made, I was able to make enough money from just like the salary the pro gaming salary to do anything it stopped, not from content creation, not from sponsorship deals and whatnot. Just like as a salary of a pro gamer. It was very recently. And so I could have quit my job way earlier just from sponsorship money or content creation. But like I said, I'm someone that needs to be challenged and needs to fulfil a lot of things. And sometimes just doing content creation. It wasn't exactly what I was looking for then. I might've done things differently now that I look back, but then I really wanted to stay where I was and so it took me a bit to make the full leap of faith to say, "Hey, I'm now fully doing that." And it was after a lot of people were already being paid to do that full time.(bright music)- "Move Makers" is made possible by Paidia Gaming. Paidia empowers women and allies of all genders to safely connect, learn, and play. When you join Paidia, you're unlocking access to an inclusive and kind gaming community. Tournaments from your favourite content creators and competitors, along with exclusive content aimed at taking your gaming skills to the next level. Make sure you head over to paidiagaming.com today to sign up and follow along on social media @paidiagaming.(bright music) You've also added your role at CLG as their director of development. Can you share more about that and what that role entails?- Yeah, for sure. So it's very interesting role because it was kind of created with the collaboration of CLG and Madison Garden where what I was the player we sold our team, UBINITED to CLG back in 2015 and I became just a player before I was running the whole thing. And I had the vision and ideas. And when I became just a player, I had expectation of what I wanted an organisation to be. And although I thought CLG was doing great things, when it comes to like being a e-sports team, my vision still hasn't been executed to what I think we should hold a professional team a standard to, with what we should do to the community and how everyone has a social responsibility to do more than just create content, do more than just pay players to play and make money. Personally, that's not something that's really appealing to me. I've never put money first in any of the things I work for it's always been actually like third, fourth, fifth, which is my agent would say, it's not the greatest, greatest plan, but that's why he is my agent now and he handles that. But to me it's always been about making a difference, pushing things, and elevating the community. Anyway, so at some point when I decided to kind of retire, stop competing and when they wanted to swap players and I was kind of banned for a little bit, they came back to me and they wanted to build on that vision and just put me in charge of it, which I thought it was an amazing opportunity because too often you have people in power that don't have a vision, or you have people that have vision and don't have the power. And I felt that it was the right time for me to be there, where I had the power and I have the vision. So it was a perfect match. So I really wanted to focus on that. So that was two years ago and like everything it's being built, one step at a time, one little brick at the time, but I do believe that in two years we completely changed the culture within the company from what I described, what e-sport team was to really nourishing and caring about each other and about the community and about diversity, inclusivity equity, about how we can make a difference and have an impact on everyone's life, around us, everybody that we touch, whether it's a fan, whether it's a player, whether it's a staff and how we can accomplish something greater than just being a team that they like to watch. And like I said, it's one brick at a time. And I do believe that it starts from within. So a lot of the work that I've done is beyond the scene, fielding these infrastructure and educating our staff and players to hold themselves to higher standards. To want to do charity for the right things not just because it's cool. To continue being the front leader of diversity and inclusivity. We were the first, one was the first one to have a women's team. That's the reason why I was at CLG in the first place, but now a lot of teams are have of woman teams. So what makes us different? Why are we still one of the leader? What's the next step when it comes to that? Also everything that has to do with philanthropy, our allies, we work with a lot of a teams from NAMI, National Association of Mental health Institute, or YukiPlay, which creates a safer space in sports for LGBTQ+ representation amongst them in sports or name it. Like we have tonnes and tonnes of different partners. And I want to make a difference from our college efforts to our junior efforts, to our high schools and primary schools initiatives. So pretty much I'm in a little bit of in a lot of boats. And, you know, I was kinda head spearing that by myself and now one by one, CLG culture and values is evolving and now it's just not me. I feel that it's really, we're all in the boat and we're all moving the same direction. So hopefully within the next couple of months, last year, we're gonna start kind of pushing that outward, not just inward. We're trying to, we started a lot of initiatives upward, but it's still maybe not feel as cohesive for the rest of the world. But let me tell you internally, those are discussions that we're having on a daily basis. And I'm here to remind everyone all the time. (laughs)- That's incredible. I mean, I'm like applauding you inside because that's so much to accomplish with a new role within an organisation that's been around and has set ways to come through. And like two years is not a lot of time, especially considering the 2020 is just, we don't even need to talk about 2020, right. It was a challenge and it's a, so I think it's definitely, I'm excited to see what, you know, hearing your enthusiasm and your passion, knowing that you are holding yourself and your team to a higher standard and like wanting to do more than you've already done is really exciting. But you have already done quite a lot. So that's pretty encouraging.- I mean, it can be confusing for people too, right?'Cause you want to make it genuine and you feel like you're not doing any progress when you're in it. And then you look back a year earlier and you're like, oh, we are so, we're at a different place like this they're happening year ago, but you don't realise that because it's really ingrained, but not ingrained as in like, you got to do so much more like in, it has to sink, you have to hear things over and over to start to understand how to want to make changes. And it was met with a lot of adversity at first. And there was decision with my boss that he's now VP at Madison Garden, he got promoted recently. There was a decision where he had to take the decision at this point, I was like, are you in, is the company in? Or are we out? Because it feels like I'm fighting by myself. And he told me, you're doing exactly what I want us to do. You are in the right path and everybody else that's not following you is in the wrong. So keep running. And I remember specifically that meeting, if I didn't have a leader that thought that way, I wouldn't be here talking with you about it, because like you said, changing a culture's company, honestly, it needs to come from both the top and the bottom and if they're not aligned, it just doesn't work.- 100%, I think a lot of organisations probably had similar conversations, you know, especially over the last couple of years. And I am glad that those conversations are being had, they're long overdue. And it is finally at a point where like people at the top cannot sit idly by, they cannot continue to ignore these conversations because these just, these issues are incredibly important. And I think that it will make such an huge impact for the future of our industry, multiple industries. But speaking about e-sports and gaming, like I get really excited, you know, like in all the conversations I have with people like you and internally it's companies, and really kind of having conversations with friends, knowing what's happening internally, because there's a lot of reeducation happening and that's something that's going to take a couple of years, it's it might take a lifetime. But I do think that 10 years from now, we're going to like, look back at this conversation and be like, can you believe that that was even something we had to advocate for? You know, 'cause it's, you know-- I mean, even like two years ago, it's a different space, right? What's going on with Valorant in the women's circuit over there, like this is a conversation a year ago, a year and a half ago, that would be completely different if you didn't have all these organisations signing women and in caring for women and not using women as necessarily always tokenizing them and like, oh, we have a woman she's like, oh, women. So anything that has to do with women sponsors or having a token women, all of our pollsters, she needs to be, you know. It feels a little more genuine for everyone, but I think you hit on something very important. I do believe that this is a lifetime thing because, you know, we work in these great organisation. And YukiPlay has been really inspiring because he's being also challenging concepts and sports and whatnot of, yeah, of just inclusivity over there. And he told me, this is an ongoing conversation that we need to revisit every month. We never know what's going to happen. We never know where things are going to go. And if we just sit on the success that we've had right now, and the progress that we've done in the last two years, for example, at CLG, we'll actually, we'll be missing the mark in six months. And so that's the culture I'm trying to create at CLG, which is so hard because I want retention on that culture, if people leave, I wanna make sure that that culture is, if I leave, I want to make sure that that culture stays. I want to make sure that people keep thinking about the next steps and not just, oh, we've been doing that for a year and it was really successful then. And women loved it, you know? So we should continue doing that. No, that's not how it works. And that's really scary because we did a big culture shift, but it's so fragile. It's so fragile and you could lose it if you right people leave or the wrong people leave depending on how you see it, that culture is gone.- Yeah.- That's a really good point because there's going to be turnover at any organisation. And I think for me, I always hope that whenever I leave a room or a conversation, a job, whatever it is that there's been some sort of impression that I can leave that carries over and it sounds like what you are doing. I'm completely confident is having that effect, because it's really just a matter of getting people to think differently and to always be considering different perspectives, different conversations, different organisations. And I think in the past kind of following a formula has been kind of the tried and true for, especially considering that e-sports is still incredibly new, but now we're realising that like, no, we don't have to follow a traditional sports model. Like we are non-traditional sports, we are not a traditional sports audience, we are very unique, inclusive, diverse community in gaming. And this is the perfect place to show others how to do it right. Like let's set the example that other organisations start to follow. And I think that just continuing to have that influence internally is going to, to have a ripple effect. So I would feel confident in that.- That's the goal, but you know exactly what you said. I'm still scared. And I'm still working on, I'm keeping that culture. And hopefully, 'cause we have young people in the company, we signed people that are 15, 16, 17, and having discussions with these people that are professional gamers who never went the traditional job path, who don't have experience like with Donald's or whatever. That's forged a youth. Like I would while I was young, these kind of, they're skipping those. So they're straight up working with huge salaries and you want to make sure that they can still develop themselves as humans, as people, and that they can get to learn about themselves and whatnot. And I feel that responsibility, I feel that responsibility to offer them with soft skills trainings, which is something that I've never had in e-sports, right. About learning about empathy, sympathy, about things that are not just like, well... You know, you talked a lot, we talk a lot in e-sports about, oh, they need to learn how to do basic things like cook for themselves, laundry. Yeah. This is all great. But what about their personality? What about their mental health? What about, well, mental health is something that we talk more about, but we're also about developing their sense of self, which I think is often overlooked. And I'm grateful we have that luxury at CLG to be in a situation where I can create soft skills training with the help of Madison Garden, because that's what they do with their regular employees and adapt it to regular CLG employees or players, staff, and whatnot, and make sure that it's relevant for a 17-years-old or for me, that's 35 in the company and that they gained something out of sitting in front of their PC for like an extra 30 minutes a day to take on the soft skills training. And if they don't want to, they don't want to, but at least it's there if they do. (laughs)- It's an option. And I think too, you're such a great probably example for those young people coming in, because you've been through this, you know, like you you've been a pro player for almost 20 years, which is still mind blowing to me.- You would think so but you know, I wasn't making thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars at 17? So you would think so, but they also think they're doing great things (laughs) and they know that I'm out of touch.- Don't they know you paved the way.(both laughing) I think that we're very old, we're getting old because I'm like, don't they know who they're talking to?- Honestly, I feel that gaming is very short memories. And if it wasn't, (sighs) yeah. Gaming as a short memory, and you can forget about a scandal within two days and you can, like you're irrelevant within a month. So, (laughs)- Oh, yeah, yeah. Well with that, for people listening who are interested in bringing this intention of having a more inclusive work environment, creating programmes around kind of the initiatives that you're doing in your position to their organisations, what advice would you maybe give to help them advocate for that internally.- You know, accepting that you don't know, you don't know. I think it's huge. Like one thing that was a big game changer for me, it was really the George Floyd murder, right. I used to say incident now I say murder, is that, I knew but I didn't know and when I talk about my women in gaming issues, when I talk, especially the men, it feels like they know, but they don't know. They will never know because they're not a woman. And even if I try to explain it as much as I can, they will always struggle with not being able to fully understand and relate. And I feel that when the George Floyd murder happened, I felt very vulnerable. I felt like, I don't know, I didn't know. Or I didn't know, I didn't know. And then also, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to say, I feel super out of place. I feel that it's not my place to do anything I'm white and that I would, I'm going to let my colleagues who are people of colour talk and that was wrong, that was the learning experience for me. And together as a company, we decided we didn't know, and we wanted to be there and do something and learn and keep learning and keep learning. So I would say that understanding that you probably don't know about most of the issues that your company have, you probably don't understand what does it means to be changing your culture until you're in it. And even then it's to keep hitting you in the balls. You're going to discover new ways to feel more exclusive all the time. You're gonna eventually think inclusivity is the most important thing then you're gonna realise that it might be equality. And then you're gonna realise that it might be equity and then you realise that actually all of them might be wrong in specific instances, because some people, they might not want to be treated differently, or they might not want equality, they might get insulted. So you're going to realise that there's no right way and there's no wrong way. And the best way is to try. And so sitting down and we created a committee a DNI committee that is so MSG has their own DNI committee, but we created our own, and we pretty much just talk and ask her some questions and how can we get better and we opened the floor to everything. And then throughout the last two years, there was issues that rose up about anti-Asians. We have a lot of Asians in the company there's issues that happen recently, more recently with Latino, Latin X, native American, First Nation in Canada, especially there was LGBTQ+ and transgender people, things that happened recently that affecting directly some of our players and whatnot. And we might not have been ready when the George Floyd murder happened. And we were not there for the people of colour in the company, and we didn't want to miss that boat again and not be there for the next time. And even though sometimes we're getting caught by surprise by what happens and by our blindness to certain issues and certain things. I think that we act at least have something in place to open the floor and talk about it and do something more rapidly or educate ourself more rapidly, or send out resources the whole organisation when something happens because we have a standing structure in place and we have people that care and that will push for things and share documents and make sure that no holidays that is important to us is forgotten. I know this is, it might be like a simple thing, but having a calendar around the year to have,"Hey, this holy day is really important for our organisation, for example, Women's Month in March is huge for us. And we want to think about it almost like 365-day approach, not just when it's Women's Month, right? And not just have that conversation on International Women's Day on March and be like,"Hey, it's Women Day happy, like happy celebration to every woman, we love women and like, check, right? So what does that mean for us? That means we need to have stuff in place all year long so that when we hit that day, we can, instead of saying, you know, this is today, we're doing something cool and say, look what we've done in the past and look where we're heading now. And we're going to keep fighting for women and do that for all of the important holidays really well. Like if you have no idea where to start, look at an American calendar and all of these, and I say American, and then the same time I'm telling myself, there's not just American holidays, but like, if you're not an American company, Canadian, wherever you are, take a look at that calendar and start with that. That's a very simple task, very concrete Excel sheet, all the calender, all the dates, priorities, what I like, what we care about, and then get to know these holidays and get educated and figure out why it matters. For example, like Juneteenth two years ago, that's when we started being super involved in Juneteenth, what does it mean? What can we do? How can we incorporate Juneteenth in whatever you're doing that day? So it's not just a Juneteenth special, but if you're doing a tournaments, you have video playing about Juneteenth, and you know, you can educate your casters, your people own screen, players playing in a tournament about what Juneteenth is. And so that after your tournaments, you're going to have people that are going to be super happy they played in your tournament. But on top of it they'll know about Juneteenth.- Yeah, we just need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable and just opening the conversation to have a perspective where the intention is to learn, not to get it right, but to learn. And I think that if that starts from like the top down in any organisation also starts internally from us ourselves from a human to human connection. I think that would just help so many people just have a new perspective, learn something new and be able to actually be part of the solution by accepting knowledge, instead of trying to figure it all out.- Yeah. And also there's not one right answer too, right? Like what you said, everybody's different. There's some on during the BLM Movement, there's different point of views. Some people want allies, some people want people to do some things. Some people just want to be listened to, some people, like you said, some people just want you to learn and shut up and learn and give me my time. So it's the only way to know what people want, especially in your organisation and in your staff is to talk about it. We actually have one player who does not really want to talk about it. He doesn't want to talk about his ethnicities. And that's awesome. We didn't know that at first our really clumsy approach was,"Hey, do you want to be on a panel about this type of day?" You know, this is your ethnicity. We're looking for someone and,"No, I don't. I don't want to talk about this. I don't feel that way." And we were actually surprised.- Right.- And it was the lack of, well, not necessarily a lack of empathy, but it was a really interesting conversation to have, but just something now, just the title loop, which is something now that we have in our onboarding process, you know, are you comfortable. Are you talking about issues like straight up, straight from the Gecko you joined CLG and we'll ask you, you know, how comfortable are you talking about, about your personal life or about being on camera? I'm in really like about just giving in general and more personal topics. Like we asked people to describe how they feel, because we don't want to disrespect them. We don't want to put them in situations where they'll be upset or they're think we didn't even consider their feelings by just asking them to be on a podcast.(both laughing)- I think that also, it kind of goes back to my earlier point where instead of saying,"Hey, you who fits this box, do you want to be part of this thing for this thing?" It's like, "Hey everyone, let us know what it is that you want." like kind of just shifts it,'cause I think it's like we, yeah, again, it's kind of like, instead of saying, "Hey, like this feels all my boxes. Let me go to this person." It's like, "Hey, is this even something that you want to do?" And I think if, instead of trying to like fill a solution, we kind of open ourselves up to other people's perspectives and consideration. Then I think a lot of, you know, we'll just learn a lot more along the way. So I'm really excited for that for you and it sounds like you're doing great things and making a really big impact. And it's gonna take someone, it's gonna take more people like you in these positions who are willing to learn and make mistakes and get better as you go. Because it's to kind of our earlier point, like it's going to take a life. It's a lifetime of knowledge that we're not going to get it right every time. And that's okay.- There's a slap, slap in the face happens almost every day. When you try to be inclusive, you fail all the time. On our onboarding forums, we wanted to know very quickly pronouns now. And someone wrote gender instead of pronouns and had a Dropbox instead of an open field. And you know, we're trying to be inclusive. We actually had the opposite effect. We restricted it to I don't know, six gender. And then we talked with like, and we had like, maybe at other, I don't know. And then we talk with, you can play for example, and you write pronouns and you leave the field open. And so it's the same outcome. You want to know how, if you need to say she, her and you actually don't really care about their gender, you just wanted to know how to address them and to respect them and Dropbox the word gender, and the Dropbox is two things that is not what you're looking for. You want an open field and to know how to address them. So like, by being more inclusive, we actually were less inclusive. (laughs) So you try, you fail, you try again. And, and I mean, the turnaround was really quick. It was like within a couple of days, but it's still it's you gotta fail to move on.- Well, it's just going to continue to make us all more intelligent people because you're learning so much every day and that's what you want to do.- Yeah.- Well, tell me-- But all of that is beyond the scene. All that is in it, what you said, it's awesome. The hard work you do, I'm like nobody knows about it.(Stephanie laughs) This is very like a self, you know, you got to pat yourself on the back 'cause no one else will.- No, exactly. It's funny. I had a similar conversation where it's like, people only see the outcome, no one sees the hundreds, thousands of hours that were spent to make things happen or to go into like these conversations. But it does make an impact. You know, this is along those like in results, continue to move the needle and to be, have that more inclusive mindset. You're going to see positive change. So keep fighting the good fight.(both laugh) Tell me more about help me if I'm pronouncing it incorrectly. Elevate, is that how you pronounce it?- Yeah. That's perfect.- Awesome. Tell me more about this.'Cause this is something that's just yours, right?- Yeah. It's my baby. It's something that I started because, you know, as we were talking, I think that I'm always pushing in my thoughts in my reflection and my vision and throughout, unfortunately, we didn't have much power needs when we started. So I still to this day feel that my progression, my learning has been through trials and error and I wish I had mentors and whatnot, but it wasn't the case. So it's been a very slow process. And so for so long, a lot of my interviews in my media appearances, when I was asked questions, this probably is the most in-depth interview I've ever had by the way. But usually it can be more about how does it feel like to be a woman and what kind of things do you get told, is it toxic, like is gaming toxics. And that's like, even like in the more recent year before it was like, when are you going to get a good, real job, you know, kinda evolve. But I'm someone that doesn't like to repeat myself that's really stubborn about always trying to learn and push myself. So I learn every time I meet someone, I learn every time I do get an interview, I learn every time I make a conference, a keynote, like I always try to keep it fresh and push the boundaries of what I'm trying to talk about.'Cause I think listening to myself, I'm like, yeah, I already know that I've been telling that for five years. So I try to challenge myself to say what is something that I don't even know that people at home wouldn't know. So a couple of years ago I started working on a conference keynote. It was for Games for Change. And I wanted to address obviously toxicity in gaming. And I wanted to take outdoor toxicity from gaming. And I'm doing a very deep backstory. I'm sorry, I'm like going to Rome to try to go to Toronto from Quebec. Like, I don't know why I'm doing this, but so, because for me, I've always said that I don't think that gave me equals toxic or toxic equal gaming. I think it's just an unfortunate thing that games are online and in our world is toxic mind. So anyway, I started having this reflection about how it's not just the problems that we associate to gaming, whether it's toxicity, whether it's malnourishment, whether it's sleeping, I mean, whether it's it's a dependence. All of these kind of things I think can be extracted through our online interactions. And I actually think that everything that we taped that is bad about gaming is just online and the rest of gaming would be extraordinary. And we would see only the great, we see only what the research shows is that gamers are smart, clever, learning enthusiast, hardworking. Like hire gamers pretty much in your company, because they're going to be killing it in their position. So, if we extract that, so for me, it is the internet and online and digital, that was a problem. So I tried to kind of think about it. And in my own way, I kind of discovered my version of what cyber citizenship is. And it's a term that I even didn't know existed. And now I think it's coming from different spots around the world where people are talking about cyber citizenship. But for me, it was when I kind of discovered it. I made all the links to my brain and I'm like,"Hey, we are awful citizens online, but there's a reason for it. We have absolutely zero education, when it comes to our cyber citizenship, we have absolutely zero resource in life to make us better citizen online. And not only that, we don't even have our parents to educate us because they did not have cyber lives before. So we are, when we comes to being citizen and full fleshed out contributor of society, we mastered that we had so much tools and systems from religion to obviously laws, the government like the police, all of our infrastructure, education is so that when we reach 18 we become independent contributor and positive contributors to the society. That's why there's all the systems around us. And that was throughout thousands of years and then entered internet. And it's been around for 20 years and it's the far west, it's a modern life with a technology that has absolutely zero support for its citizen. So at that point, it was kind of like a bulb within my close community. So my parents, my age mates where now I live we were like, this is it. This is what you need to be talking about. We need to push that. And then Elevate became this for me, Elevate for me, it's how do we elevate our conversation to talk about cyber citizenship in a way that yes, we want to talk about the harms that digital citizenship and cyber citizenship can cause, but also what can we do to be better cyber citizen? What can we do to support, I call them the Harvey 3CS. So that's my pop quiz, Harvey or 4CS now, I would say, cyber dependence, cyber security, cyber bullying, and then cyber wellness. So for me, cyber citizenship has like four pillars that we need to get educated on like five, six years old, to be equipped, to face the challenges that life, that the curve ball that life is going throw us. Just the same way as if you get punched in the face in school, you'll have your teacher, your parents giving you advice. You have rules, don't punch people, blah, blah, blah. You get punched online right now. What is there? Nothing, absolutely nothing. If you fall from a building, you are not wearing a seatbelt and you're not wearing anything and you just crash and your mental health suffer out of it and it can be your body is all that stuff out of it. From your posture, your eyes, your dryness and whatnot, and that has nothing to do with gaming in a way, because you extract gaming tomorrow, there's no more gaming. We still have all of these issues, every single one of them. Like I said, for me, gaming is a positive layer. So going back to our main topic, why I made Elevate is for that, to educate these people, whether it's by launching the clothing line that we launched so that every single piece represents and have a conversation about cyber citizenship. So from gaming myths to, I call them conversation pieces, because that's the keys. Like you see something, for example, I have, I should have been wearing Elevate right now, but I have one shirt that's a PewPew and flower. And so for me, it's like actually PewPew, which are linked to video games is not a violent thing. It has nothing to do with violence. And it doesn't make you a more violent person and has been proven as the fact that that's why I made flowers around it. Just to kind of have a conversation about these kinds of things so that if you're wearing it, there's a little bit of a meaning behind it. That makes sense to you. And also you can start that conversation, even if it's your fans, family one night,"Hey, did you know? I'm wearing this because did you know that actually that video games don't cause more violence actually, for most of the time, they allow you to express anger in the positive and healthy way, and it's proven. And if you want to check out the research, I bought this on Elevate and Elevate has all the links for it, right underneath the shirt."- Wow! That's awesome.- Yeah, but it's a work in progress. Like everything in life, we started the company recently and we'll be pushing to add more stuff very soon.- I mean, what an incredible mission. And I think that's something, I mean, that's a big task to undertake, you know.(both laughing)- Well, let me just tackle cyber citizenship here.- But I think it's such a, I mean, the fact that you've like put together these resources, you have your reach and your leadership that you're able to get it out there. So I think that's incredible.(bright music) Well, Stephanie, to wrap us up, why don't you let people know what your next move is? I mean, you have so much going on, so let us know what your next move is and where everyone can find you.- Yeah. Well, there's a lot happening. Let's just say a 2021 is not over in 2022 is already. I'm already planning up until May at this point already. So, yeah, it's a little chaotic, but moves that I can talk about right now is working on books. I have an English one, and I also have a French one. They're not necessarily the same topic at all. It's not just the translation, they're completely different pieces. And the French ones should come out early this 2022 we're right in the midst of writing it. So we have a deadline, so it's happening no matter what (laughs) we have contract signing on that. So this is a really big deal for me, kind of a dream. And we'll see what that goes. More Elevate stuff, more CLG stuff, and just overall working a lot.- Wonderful. Well, keep it up because I'm so excited. I'm so happy that we have the opportunity to connect. You do so much more than I even realised. Like I knew you had a lot on your plate, but really having the opportunity to talk to you about everything that seems to be processing in your mind at any one time, I think is just incredible. So I'm really excited for the future and hope we get to stay in touch. So best of luck to you.- Yeah. Thank you. You're a great listener. I talk a lot and you let me finish all my talks and yeah, you're a great listener.- Oh, no, thank you so much. You you're a great storyteller.(bright music) I still have a smile on my face from this interview because Stephanie's energy and positivity is so infectious and I get excited to follow along in her journey as she to create positive change in e-sports. My biggest takeaway from our conversation though, is that Stephanie is a life long learner. She is consistently and proactively taking on new challenges and responsibilities that a lot of people would shy away from. And she isn't afraid to make mistakes along the way and is constantly evolving her perspectives. And that's such a valuable quality for any Move Maker. And I hope those of you who are listening are able to go about your day, taking time to listen and consider new perspectives from your peers. I want to thank Missharvey again for her time and sharing her story with all of us. Now get out there, and make your move!(bright music)