#003: My guest today is professional Tekken 7 player, Jeannail “Cuddle_Core” Carter. In this episode, we discuss the beginnings of her professional esports career and her experience of being a female competitor in a male-dominated game. She also shares her passion for mental health and the role it plays in her competitive career.
#003: My guest today is professional Tekken 7 player, Jeannail “Cuddle_Core” Carter. In this episode, we discuss the beginnings of her professional esports career and her experience of being a female competitor in a male-dominated game. She also shares her passion for mental health and the role it plays in her competitive career.
(chilled music)- Yeah, like 99% of the time I've been in co-ed tournaments, and I never saw it any other way, because that was kind of just, like, what was around me, right? So, I prefer it that way, personally, but that's also because my experiences were positive ones when I entered the scene. So, it didn't make going into co-ed tournaments feel intimidating, or anything like that. I was there to learn, and I was gonna learn.- My guest today is a professional Tekken 7 player, a two-time ICFC champion, an EVO finalist, and a Red Bull gamer. Jeannail Carter, more popularly known as Cuddle_Core, is a boss. She's someone I've had on my radar for the last couple of years, and I am just so excited to see her continue to succeed in new ways. Now, as you'll hear from our conversation, she shines with confidence, and an enthusiasm for hard work that I can't help but admire. We also talk about her passion for mental health, and the role that it plays in her professional gaming career, and how she balances a demanding training and creator schedule. So, without further ado, let's meet our move maker, Cuddle_Core.(chilled music) Well, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you on today. How are you doing?- I am doing great. I actually just got back yesterday from Red Bull HQ in the Great Lakes region, so, you know, feeling good, loving that, getting to meet a part of the team, and learn a bit more about the history of Red Bull, so, feeling good, feeling great, and glad that it's Friday.- Oh, yeah, me too. And congratulations,'cause I know the Red Bull partnership is new. I mean, that's such a huge milestone. How are you feeling?- I feel great about it. It makes sense. I've done a lot of good work, not just in my competitive career, but also just being an influencer in my community, being a leader, and coach, and using my influence to affect my community in a very positive way, so, I really think this, it was a very good milestone. It was like a necessary step. And at first it was a little shocking, but, like I said, it makes sense. The more I think about it, it's appropriate that I would come to this next step. I want it to get further. Like I want to kind of go outside of the fighting game community anyway, esports, because there's a lot of opportunities, a lot of good opportunities, not just for competition, but like in terms of financial stability, opportunities that help you become more versatile, other than just being a player, but also helps you kind of see the esports realm in like a wider lens, it's not just like a small sub-community of the fighting game community, at all. So, I really love that. I love the professionalism of it, but like also the comradery that happens amongst these different communities within esports. I feel like I'm treated as a true professional within that space. And, with being with Red Bull, it's like a nice little badge, that shows like, "I'm even more professional. Yeah." So, yeah (laughs).- I am so, like, I guess this is gonna sound silly,'cause I know we just kinda met, but like I'm so proud of you, and like listening to you say that so eloquently, and so confidently, I mean, it further validates, to me, the partnership, and the continued milestones throughout your career. Sorry, there's a fly in my face (laughs). See if I get cross-eyed for a second there. But I think it's so inspiring and impactful for the people listening to hear you kind of celebrate this, because I know a lot of people, especially as women, we kind of like downplay our successes. So, good for you. So proud. Cannot wait to see what you accomplish. I'm of course biased. And I'm really excited to see you as part of the Red Bull family. So, I'm just really excited,'cause I know that you're gonna do incredible things there.- Oh, thank you so much. I'm excited. I feel like I'll just continue on with my work, and the good things, doing them even more so with Red Bull, and it helps make it easier for me to do those things, because I have access to even more resources. So, it takes a lot of the weight off of me, and kind of feeling like I can only do so much, because you know, this is what we have in terms of resources, X, Y, and Z, that's it, but it opens up so much more. So, it helps me tap into my potential in so many other ways, and it helps me grow as an athlete, a player, as well. So, I'm really excited about that, and I've already been feeling the benefits of it, so.- Oh, incredible. No, I'm really excited for you. Well, why don't you start off by telling us, how did you, like, when did you first realize you had the potential to become a professional Tekken player? What was your first move into esports?- My first move into esports probably started when I first started competing, back when I was like still learning matchups in the game, but that was like seven years ago, maybe even more. And I wanted to go to locals. So, I started going to locals, because I talked to a few people on like a Facebook gaming group for Tekken for Chicago, and I met them at like this venue, and I played with them. They ended up being some of my closest friends, but at the same time, I became more aware of locals because of interacting with them, and them introducing me to the Tekken community in our area. So, after that, and competing for a bit of time casually, in tournaments and things like that, it was 2018, and I got invited to compete on television for ELEAGUE, and I had never competed in a tournament on that scale. That was a massive scale, like,"This is TV. What? That's crazy." But, Tekken 7 had released not too long ago, in America at the time, so it was like, yeah, it was 2018, but it'd been out for like a few months. And like, this was huge for American Tekken, because I think it helped make it popular. It got people hype about it, because Tekken was kinda more like low key, not a lot of people. It was a small community. The community really kept it alive, but it wasn't as popular as other fighting games. So, with 7, and it being on TV, and some of the best American players at the time being shown there, it was very important. I was able to prove a lot. I beat some of the best players there. I was also the only female captain, but it proved a lot to me, that I had taken it, I was always very serious about my hobby, but I was in school for something else completely, it was illustration. But seeing that I could do it on that level I think ignited like even a bigger fire in me, so that when I did fall into like the profession of being a pro Tekken player, I knew I could do it because of that experience at ELEAGUE, and I think, yeah, that was the biggest thing, that it proved a lot to me. I saw it first-hand. I was like, "Can I even do this on this level? I've never done this before. I'm kinda new to this kind of level of competition." But I could, 'cause I had it in me. It just, it came out. It came out because of adrenaline, because of that fire you feel as you're playing, and kind of, maybe the responsibility as a captain to help out your team, because a few of my teammates had gotten eliminated versus this other team, and I'm like, "Okay, maybe it's time for me to come in now. I need to put myself in." And then I eliminated the other four players on the team because of it, there were five, I eliminated the other four, and people at the time, they didn't know who I was to that extent. American players knew, but not everybody. Not a lot of people knew. Some did. So, when they saw that, they went, "Oh! Who is this?" And they're like, "Oh, that's cool." And then the buzz around that started happening, and that's really what I think ignited a lot of that. It spurred me kind of forward, honestly. So.- I can only imagine what that moment probably felt like, of being, this is what you kind of describe as like a hobby at the time, coming in at this massive stage, and then beating out some of the best players. Did that really lead into, like, do you feel like that was the defining moment of,"I am a professional Tekken player"? Or was it the next move, or something further down the line, that really kind of solidified that for you? When did that shift from a hobby to pro happen for you?- When I realized this career was actually gonna be my career, and it wasn't just a hobby, from hobby to pro, I think was when I got signed to Equinox Gaming, and they said, "Hey, you wanna go to this? You wanna go to this, like these tournaments?" And they were, one was in Canada, and then the one after that was out of the country completely, it was in Amsterdam. And those were my first two tournaments with them. And so I'm signed to a whole new team, right. Me still thinking that,"Oh yeah, I'm gonna still be an illustrator full-time." And I think once I, yet again, same thing, but I'm established as a pro player for them at this point, because I'm signed with them, and I said, "If they're seeing me this way, there's something that they see." They'd obviously been scouting me for a while then. And so I'm like,"Maybe I should be considering myself and like holding myself to this standard as well,'cause I take it so seriously, it's been in my life for like years, competing and all that comes with it." So, when I went to Canada Cup, I got fourth there. When I went to Amsterdam, I got fourth there, and that was a last-chance qualifier, against tons of international competition. And that blew me up actually. Oh my God, yeah. Actually, yeah, that blew me up. And, it showed what I was capable of doing on a wider scale, in terms of competition, showed more American players. It showed women pro female players, what we're capable of. It's always nice to see,'cause sometimes we're rare in certain spaces, and just my own personality, my own play style, and the way I pilot my character. So yeah, I think those couple of instances were true determining factors in when it switched from hobby to pro.- Awesome. And you mentioned being a woman in the space, and in the FGC in particular, as you know, more one-on-one play, I've always noticed that there is a bit more, like I see more women competing in fighting games than I do in probably most other sports, correct me if I'm wrong, in other esports, I should say. So, how did that help shape you, being always in these co-ed competitions on a main stage, where I think in other esports, there's still that separation by gender, in most cases, not all, but I know traditionally speaking? So, how did that help shape you? And do you think that other esports could learn from the FGC, in that respect?- So, I've always been in, like 99% of the time, I've been in co-ed tournaments, and I never saw it any other way, because that was just like what was around me, right? So, I prefer it that way, personally, but that's also because my experiences were positive ones when I entered the scene, so it didn't make going into co-ed tournaments feel intimidating, or anything like that. I was there to learn, and I was gonna learn. Dug my heels in, and when I needed to ask a question, I would, but I also think it was because of how welcoming the community was. And because of that, I didn't feel uncomfortable with signing up in this stuff, but also, at the same time, I was aware that gaming can be male-dominated at times, depending on the realm. So, I've been, because of that, I was like,"You know, there's that, but I still wanna learn." And I was getting to give back for my community, so, I signed up for tournaments, I asked questions, went to meetups where we would all play offline. You know, we all learned from each other, and I was respected as a peer, as like someone they could learn from as well, and vice versa. They didn't see my gender. But unfortunately, that isn't the case for all women who enter the scene. Some other communities don't allow them to really do that. The first thing they see is their gender, and because of that, they're treated differently, the comments that are said to them, like they're met with hostility before they even wanna ask a question or compete. So, when that happens, they wanna find those safe spaces, those places where they know that they can learn comfortably without the constant judgment and criticism for simply being a woman, which does happen. So, it depends on the community, truthfully, and one's first experiences when coming in, and sometimes, you know, even with all that, people can still learn in co-ed environments, but it does make it harder to learn. And for me personally, it can make things hard to learn, when you're met with all this hostility, it's so healthy to learn in a good environment, an environment that's there to uplift you. It's positive. It's a positive learning experience. Now, I do think with other esports, and the fact that they do like the gender-separate tournaments and things like that, I mean, I don't know what that's like, because I've never had to have to do that, and I personally wouldn't want to, it's not really my thing. I wanna compete where all the competition is so I can get all those experiences. That's just personally me. And if the majority happens to be male then, okay, cool, and maybe I'll play in a female tournament here and there, but, no, I want to play where there's the biggest concentration of all that talent, and in one space. I wanna get as much experience as I can.(chilled music)- Move Makers is made possible by Paidia Gaming. Paidia empowers women, and allies of all genders, to safely connect, learn, and play. When you join Paidia, you're unlocking access to an inclusive and kind gaming community, tournaments from your favorite content creators and competitors, along with exclusive content aimed at taking your gaming skills to the next level. Make sure you head over to paidiagaming.com today to sign up, and follow along on social media @paidiagaming.(chilled music) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read somewhere recently that you started playing Tekken with your dad. Is that correct?- Yes.- And so in playing Tekken with your dad, do you think, and just your family in general, like with a parent, do you think having that kind of support also kind of helped maybe bridge, let's say, an equity gap, that maybe some women might face whenever it comes to having access to competitive play at an age where, let's say boys traditionally get that access, or get that encouragement?'Cause I'm just really curious if you think that maybe played a big part in your interest, and your growth as a pro player.- Well, I always kind of think like, my dad never really babied me when we played. Of course, I was always like his little girl, but when we were competing, it was very much so like,"Well, you know, don't cry. Train, practice, get better. There's no point in crying about anything. You could use that energy getting better and studying things." So, you know, as a kid, you kind of just go through the move list. You don't really have direction when it comes that, but you go through the move list, you look at combos, you start to look at the structure of the game, the mechanics, a little bit. And I think that just kind of stuck with me. It made me competitive. So every time I played him, I wanted to beat him. And, my dad never, he never said,"Well, you know, gaming is usually what boys do." So, yeah. And a lot of people, their parents were just like,"Hey, you know, play some games," or if they saw their kids playing games, they helped support the hobby by buying games for their kids. And thankfully my dad wasn't like,"Well, you know, this is what..." He never just, "This is what girls do," or, "This is what boys do." No, it was very much so like, yeah, I played with dolls, but at the same time, I also played video games like crazy. You know, you can have both, but my parents were always very neutral when it came to those kinds of things. It wasn't like, the societal norms for gender didn't play a role in my house when it came to that. And I'm glad, because I wouldn't be in this career that I'm in if that were the case.- I have this perspective, I have no fact or data, it's just like a thought that I've pondered myself, about thinking how, as millennials become parents, we're going to see, I think, more of an even kind of playing field among genders, as like, I'd say 10 to 20 years from now, because millennial parents are gamers, whereas, whenever I was a kid, I had a Sega Genesis, and I was never discouraged from playing because I was a girl, but more of like computer time, like play time, like it was like, "Get outside." That was always like my parents' thing. It was like just,"You played too long, get outside." And unfortunately for me there isn't a league for the Sega Disney series (laughs),'cause that was like all I played as a kid. But, so I do think that there's going to be this kind of like shift and evolution of, let's say, future generations, because the equity gap is, I think, going to narrow, as more parents, as gamers, play with their kids, regardless of their gender. So, I'm excited thinking about esports 10 to 20 years from now, whenever it comes to having more women in the space. And I do think that there's value to programs and leagues for women who don't necessarily have the kind of access, or support, that you did, or other communities do, to help get there. But, I agree, I'm very excited for the day, whenever we have just as many women playing on the main stage in all esports, so, I think that's something that I really look forward to. And we'll have to connect in 10 years to see if my theory is right (laughs). Cool. All right. So, as a pro player, and I know this is something that, again, as more young people watch esports, consume video game content on platforms like Twitch and YouTube, we're going to have more and more people who want to actually pursue being a professional esports player, much like they would a professional ballplayer, right? So, what kind of advice, as a pro player now, well into your career, would you give someone listening who wants to be a pro player?- So, the advice I would give to someone who is looking to be a pro player is, don't make excuses. That's my biggest thing. That's my biggest pet peeve, is when people make excuses for the things that they lose to. You can be upset that something happened, because there are some things in the game that are kind of ridiculous, and you gotta learn how to fight past them, sure. But making excuses for everything, will put Band-Aids on your problems, but you're not solving them. And in competitive gaming, it's about problem-solving, and for fighting games, it's about problem-solving. Anything you compete in, it's about problem-solving. What is the best strategy to defeat your opponent? It could be one strategy, two, or three, but that changes as the round goes on, or the set goes on. That's one piece of advice. Also, knowing your worth. Knowing your worth is very important,'cause people will try you. They will try to low-ball you, and you don't want that. You want to understand what your brand, what the value of your brand is. It's very important. You have to respect yourself. Don't do certain things for free. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do some things for free. If they're close to your heart, you trust those orgs, or you trust that cause, whatever? Sure. I do it all the time, for those things that I really love. Sometimes it's not about the money, no. But if it's your livelihood, there are gonna be some opportunities where you're like, if you're not getting paid what you're worth, it is not worth your time. Because like I said, organizations, companies, will try to use your work, use you for free. And so that's like another big thing, knowing your worth. Also, I guess I'll say that the last piece of advice is go at your own pace in terms of success, and everybody's path is different. So, what you're going to do to get to a certain accomplishment or goal will be different than the next person, and the other person. Comparing yourself can, I think, be harmful, to a degree. If you're comparing, you have two people, you're doing something in the same realm as them, you're seeing that they're getting certain opportunities, comparing yourself could actually be detrimental to your growth, and maybe ask them, "Hey, how did you do this? How did you do that?" Study. Study them, learn from them, turn it into like a learning lesson, more than anything. There are so many people that are influencers, and we're not in the same profession, but we're in the same industry. So, I kind of learn how to handle certain things, or how to approach certain deals, because I read their tweets, like their advice that they give on Twitter, social media can be a beautiful tool when used correctly. And so many of these things, my manager taught me. I'd also say, if you have a manager, or you don't, get one. Get one, because they will help you in your day-to-day, ongoings of getting approached for deals, and seeing what the best fit is for you, and how to negotiate. What's your rate per hour? And there is just so many things, and they can teach you so much. My manager, Emily, does it for me, all the time. She's taught me so much. And advocate for yourself, advocate for yourself, because, you know, gotta be your biggest fan. Anyway. That is my advice though, so.- That's a lot of really good advice. And I think something that is, to me, that points out, or stands out, I should say, is that so many things that you said, I think are characteristics of a really strong business person, which, a lot of people don't necessarily think of, or may not come to mind, whenever it comes to being a professional athlete, player, in any field. So, talk to me a little bit about that. When did you start, did you always have a business kinda mindset, or is that something that you kinda learned along the way?- The business mindset is something I learned along the way. Because the gaming industry is still kind of new in certain ways, especially esports, my manager really, when certain things would be sent to me through emails, like opportunities, or certain panels, or public speaking opportunities, or compensation, I talked to her,'cause I didn't know about some of this stuff. So, the more exposure I got, the more I became known in my space, people are approaching you for things, you're like,"I have never had to think or consider an hourly rate," or, "Is this amount good for what I'm giving to them in terms of work output? Like, we need to talk." So, she's always accessible, right? Like, I could talk to her, and she would give me her honest opinion, because she used to work for another esports team. She used to work on Echo Fox, and she's been in the gaming industry for a while, it's a long time, and she's a businesswoman. So, because she's a businesswoman, she showed me the ropes. And so it's rubbed off on me. I'm always honest with her, I'm very transparent when I need, when something doesn't feel right, or like if a certain proposal doesn't hit me a certain way, or it feels there's red flags, I talk to her, and she always tells me,"If something doesn't feel right, trust your gut, and let's talk." And then, we outweigh (indistinct), talk about the pros and cons. Which one outweighs the other? And since we've been doing this together, like three or four years, I now can do so much of this on my own, but I hear her in my head, and I'm really glad I have a female manager, because some of the things that I still experience are based on my gender, and she understands those things, you know? So, she teaches me in one way about business, but, you know, she's also able to help me, and be like my mental guide.- I think the most important thing, besides your gut being your best friend, always listen to your gut, I'm a big proponent of that too, is to surround yourself with people you trust, and who want to see you succeed. And a lot of times that is hard to find. So, it sounds like you have a great mentor in Emily, and I'm really excited and happy for you for that.- Yes. I consider Emily my mentor, my manager/agent, but also, a very close friend. She's all of those things to me. And we've been able to have a relationship where like, although all those things co-exist in the workplace, but you know, whenever I need her, she's there, and we talk, and it's very mutual, like the way we rely on each other. And I always say, if it wasn't for her, I would not be here. I spoke in a speech about (indistinct), people taking a chance on you. And she did.'Cause I definitely thought about it at the time when they did sign me to Equinox, like I was like, Hmm. You know, being a female pro player, not always very common. Being a black, female pro player, it's just... And getting that opportunity, I'm like, "Wow," especially for fighting games, you don't see it all the time, or in pro spaces in general. It's getting better, but it's still sometimes kind of rare, depending. And so I was like,"Hmm, I just wanna feel comfortable on a team. That's all." So, with her, I always felt like I was. Like, always. Because there's so many people on our team that come from different backgrounds as well,'cause those are the types of people they bring in, tons of different talent, ethnicities, gender, like everything is versatile. So, I never feel like the odd person out, which is so nice, and it allows me to do my job comfortably, while still learning.- That's really important. I'm really, really happy to hear that. I've heard really great things about Emily. I hope I get to meet her one day, so.- Yeah, she's phenomenal.- Whenever we connected over email, you shared that physical and mental health is a big part of your kind of day-to-day. What role does physical and mental health really play in your professional career?- The role that physical and mental health plays in my professional career is like knowing where to have that separation, that balance, because, I'm not gonna lie, it's so easy to like wanna work a lot. Like I like being preoccupied with work. I love feeling productive, but also with being productive, you can overwork yourself, and at some point, you're gonna get burnt out, which means you can't give your all, like your 110 to your career because you're so burnt on the things that you're supposed to be loving. So, that's when mental health comes in, and understanding when it's important to approach that self-care, that self-love, the weekend's like,"No, okay. This is the weekend. I need to chill."(laughs) Don't look at email, don't read email. It's setting the boundaries. And when it's time to stop, when does the work clock stop? And when you are your own boss, you're self-employed, which is definitely what I am, to an extent, mental health and physical health become like a necessity, because nobody, there's not a clock telling you, or like a company telling you,"Hey, this is when you stop working." You have to do that for yourself. So, like scheduling is important. Taking vacations is important. It is crucial to my professional career. I have to have the balance, or else I won't be able to do my career, or my profession, efficiently at all.- Did you ever reach a point of burnout that you learned from, or has this always been something that you've had a strong kind of mental stance on?- Yes. I did reach a point of like burnout, but it was more so like physically it happened, and it was my eyes. I think I was playing, or streaming for bit too long, and I knew it was a problem. The moment I went to go and lay down,'cause like the eye strain was there, so, I went to go and lay down, after probably like maybe six, seven, eight, hours of playing, I closed my eyes, and it's almost like I could not get to that state of sleep where you're literally like, you're out, like you don't even remember what happened once you're out, like eyes are closed, your brain shuts off, you're asleep. I couldn't do it. My eyes were too dry. They were too strained for me to get efficient sleep, because of how long I was staring at that screen. And it was not just one day, it was multiple days of that. And I was like,"In all this training that I'm trying to do, maybe I need to also know when like it's good to play, and when to stop." It has been years since I've done that. I play like two or three hours, and that's it. Now, I will give myself a little leeway. I streamed Resident Evil 7 on the weekend. Love that game. It's amazing. Wow. Played seven hours. That's not the same thing. It's not the same thing. It's a completely different game. Doesn't count. But when you're so hyper-focused when you're training, masses of hours can pass and you not notice. So, knowing that, having that good balance, knowing when to stop. It happened to me more than once after that too. And I was like, "Yeah. I need to fix something." So, ever since then I play like maybe two or three hours, maybe four. I don't stream all the time now. I don't believe in streaming all the time, because given what I'm doing with my profession, I sometimes need a little step away. Some people can stream a lot more. That's fine. Me, I need a little time away. And I don't always want to stream my practice. I want to kind of just be able to do it with my coach, or like, play with another friend, and just absorb that way,'cause I can't tackle chat, and talk to chat, and also play at the same time, all the time. And I'm gonna say,"Well, it's okay if I can't all the time, I can't be everything to everyone all the time. I gotta be there for myself." So, yeah.- Cool. I know a lot of people listening will be able to relate to that,'cause I know I can (laughs). I'm so guilty of falling into old habits of like doing all the things.'Cause I like, we're very similar, like I like to work. It's weird, but I get it. Like I love to work. But I've also reached these points of burnout, where I'm realizing I've just taken on too much. So, this has been like a big kind of self-care project for me, the last several months, is taking on things that bring me joy, but then understand that things that bring me joy, like even organizing this podcast, take a lot of work and time, so, like making sure that I'm still allotting time for rest, for reading, for family, because that is something that I can really easily fall into, like back into bad habits, I should say. But I know a lot of people listening can probably really relate to that. For you, is there anything else for mental health that you do beyond just setting boundaries? Like, do you meditate? Is there anything like that that you do as well, that really kinda helps get you mentally strong for competition?- Yes. So, for like mental health, and kind of preparing myself for competition, I have visited the world of meditation. I would like to do it a bit more, but when I do, it feels so good. I feel, like especially the meditation videos for competitors, I love those. YouTube is a great tool for those. Sometimes just five minutes, sometimes seven, or 10, but like allotting that time, whenever I allotted that time to really just be, and listen to the video, and they talk about like,"Say this, like I am," and then you say, "I am," and your name, or like you say,"I'm ready for this day. I've done the work." You're saying those things outwardly, and you're like,"If I'm saying them, this is true,'cause I have. I've done all the work. I'm prepared. This is me." And because of those things, it just kind of reminds you, it's so easy to forget those things when you're just... It's so easy to criticize yourself. You know, you live with yourself every day. And like, from your perspective, you could be like,"Oh my God. How did I lose that? Oh my God, I should have won on points, with doing this, and this and that, or this round." But then like, you know, if you just literally step outside yourself, and you look at all the things that you do, and all the things you accomplish, a lot of people see how much, or like the accomplishment. You know, you can be hard on yourself, but if everybody else can see those things, and how great you've done, or like, how good you did, even though you might've not have reached a certain milestone in this tournament, or whatever it is. Like, they can do that, you should be able to look inside yourself, and see all the things that you've done, or that you've accomplished. It could have been something small, but telling yourself that you appreciate the things that you do, or like, the fact that you do the work, you prepare, you train, you're good at what you do. It makes you feel so good. It makes you, it makes you feel so good.'Cause like I said, it's so easy to continue to criticize yourself in a realm where like, that's all that's done because like you're a competitor, you're a pro. God, you win, you're getting criticized, you lose, you're getting criticized. And I don't listen to any of that. I tune out all that. I don't even look for that stuff.- Good for you-- I just play. And the person I want to criticize me is my training partner, and my coach. Those are the only people, and my teammate, like those are the only people I would have do that, anyway, because they play the game, and they're genuinely just like,"Hey, maybe you could have done that better."'Cause I asked, or like,'cause we're watching together, or 'cause we're all doing it. Those are the only people I would want, anyway, to criticize me,'cause they know what the game's about, you know? And they're in my space. So, yeah.- You make such a good point, because I wonder what the reasoning, or why, as human beings, we're so prone to have a negative voice inside of our head all the time. You know, even if we're doing something great, and we know we're doing something great, there's always that voice telling us what we could have done differently, or it always kind of like for me, I know I'm the worst at anticipating the worst. Like that's just, that's like part of my survivor toolkit too, I feel. But I also know that there are times when I should just really be in the moment, and celebrating, and it's not easy. It's not. It takes retraining.- It's really hard to be in the moment. That is something that I'm still learning about all the time,'cause you know, I think what you said earlier, though, with some of us having that habit to want to work, work, work, work. So, like, even if we, when we accomplished something phenomenal, it's an amazing feat, we're still like, "Man, you know. What's the next thing I can do to do even better?" Perfection. But I read something once, and I'm totally botching this, but it said like, yeah, perfection is kind of hard to achieve. Nobody's perfect. But excellence is totally doable. It doesn't mean there's not gonna be like some mistakes, but excellence is like knowing that you have flaws, but still knowing that you can accomplish anything, and appreciating yourself for those things.- And I like that you talked earlier about your meditation with like, it sounded like there was moments of manifestation too, right? I'm a big believer in manifestation. I manifest a lot of things in my life. And, so I think that's something that's really valuable, if you're able to, even if it's just like 10 minutes of silencing the negative talk, and just manifesting out loud what it is you want from your life, or the outcome that you want to pursue, or that you want to make happen, I really think is just healthy practice, and something that a lot of people could value from.- Yeah. I agree. Manifesting by speaking outward what it is you want, or what it is that you already do that you know you do well, and confirming those things for you. You might end up getting a few tears, and that's good too. Let that out. Be proud. Be proud of yourself. It's really easy to be hard on yourself, because you live with yourself every day. We wanna be the best versions of ourselves, especially when we're taught that excellence is the only option, especially growing up, that's all, my God. But be kind to yourself, be gracious, be good to yourself. Manifest. I believe it. On Twitter all the time, I see like,"Manifest. I'm manifesting this." And then they type it out, and I'm like,"Oh, that's so cool." Yeah.- Awesome. No, that's great. How do you think you'll, how do you bring this kind of, I guess, spirit, or the spirit of positivity, this prioritizing mental health, how do you bring that to your partnerships with organizations like Paidia and Red Bull? Do you see that as kind of like opportunity to reach more people through those platforms? Or what, how do you bring, I guess, your unique perspective as a competitor to your partnerships?- So, my perspective on mental health, what value that brings to places like Red Bull, and Paidia, I really feel like sometimes it's not talked about enough, but I'm a pro player. And as a person, I'm very open, not about like all the things in my life, but like when it comes to the experiences I have in these spaces, I don't sugar coat them. And I think sometimes people are just a little timid talking about them, because they're not sure how it'll be received. Well, that's okay. I'll say it first. That's fine. If that'll make you feel more comfortable, that's cool. I've been here. I've done that. And people aren't alone, you know. Somebody encouraged me by literally just, when people say certain things, like about the experiences, I'm like,"It feels so good to know it's not like just me."'Cause sometimes it feels like really easy to feel alone in something, because you don't talk to anybody about the things you feel, especially in your profession, right? Say if you're like the only woman, or like one of the few women in a space, and you're like, you do your job well, love what you're doing. But like, you're like one of the only people that look like you there, at a place. Sometimes your experiences are very different than somebody else's. So, the way you maneuver at the space will be different. But like there's a lot of people who can learn from that. So, with that, and my take on mental health, and just how I approach those things, because of my experiences, I feel like it helps people to understand, like it's not just them, you're not alone. And there are some suggestions, some ways, that can help, some things you can try and test, that can help you to be the best version of yourself, from any background you come from, this can help, 'cause we're all, like so many of us are in the same profession. Sometimes you just need a little guidance, a little help. Sometimes like reading, or listening to somebody's experience, it makes me feel like motivated, encouraged, that this will pass, and as long as you solve it in a healthy way, and get that help that you need, however that looks, you can do anything. But that's what I really feel like I'll be providing, is like that sort of insight into the realm of a pro player who really like got a therapist because my mental health mattered that much to me. And not just that I got a coach, which also approaches another type of very like positive pro player health that's important. Somebody who's like, "Yeah, you know, that's fine. You know, you didn't knock out that player, or you lost to something that you didn't wanna lose to. We're gonna work on that." It's encouraging. It's healthy. And yet again, no, there's so many people that don't talk about it. They don't talk about it. And I like to talk about those things, because I want players who are coming up to know these resources can be accessible to you, and it's a lot more accessible now. We have people getting coached left and right now, and I love it. I love my teammate is a whole coach, as well as like a amazing pro player. And I love him to death. You know, he helps people, and he gets paid for his time, which, as he should. So, like, I love that people are more aware of how healthy coaching is, because people are talking about it, and also getting mental help, therapy or, you know, yeah. Talking about it. And that happens because people talk about it. You gotta talk about it, or these things will not get fixed or solved, and people will just think that people become pro players and fight all these mental hurdles just out of thin air, when it doesn't happen like that. We go through things every time we play, or we deal with something on that stage, and you know, yeah. That's really what I think (laughs).(laughs)- I can only imagine the pressure that comes with being a competitor, especially at the scale that you are. I'm not a very competitive person. I think some people, like people who know me, might tilt their head whenever, I'm not. I do not care about winning or losing. I like to win, but I just like to have fun in the process. But I do think something else that you said too, about saying things that are typically kept quiet, right? I think as, especially as women, a lot of times, if we hear a conversation happening in the room, or around us, that we know isn't quite right, or that we don't agree with, I think a lot of times we've been like,"You know, if we just stay quiet. We know how we feel, and then we'll kinda move on," and that's just the way it is, right? And, I'm notorious for saying things that everyone else is thinking, but no one's saying, so, I'm really happy talking to you, and hearing that you have similar kind of values instilled in you, because it's so important, because I can't tell you how many people, just in my life, have reached out to me, like,"I'm so glad that you said something. I've been wanting to say this." And, you know, I'm hopeful that seeing people like you on the platforms, and with your influence and your reach, as you continue to grow, are going to be further inspired by that, because it's so, so incredibly important that we don't let things that "have always been" continue to be, whenever we know that change is necessary. So, please continue to use your voice.- Yeah. I am. You know, they always say like, closed mouths never get fed, and that's so true. And I just feel, like you said, as women, sometimes when things happen, it happened and we're like, "Okay." And then we just don't say anything, it's internalized, right? But, you know, at some point, like we have to kind of speak about these things, if we want something to be done. Be the change, you know. But that's the thing, it takes time to get comfortable in your own skin enough to like speak up, because there is a, at one point I was really just like,"I'm just gonna, just not say anything," but at some point, I think you become, you don't want to become complacent with the norm,'cause sometimes the norm doesn't mean it's okay. It doesn't mean it's good. So, talking about certain things like mental health, are really important, because, as pros, and people in everyday life, we have so many things that we deal with, big and small, and everybody deserves to get help, therapy, you know. You don't wanna be left alone with your thoughts all the time.- I think, there are some people close to me, throughout my life, who anytime I'm like,"Who are you talking to? You talking to someone?" And it's like, "Oh, I don't need, I don't need that." It's like a weakness. Or, it's like, it's an admission of there being something wrong. But to me, I like to think of the brain as like a muscle that needs to be treated, and cared for, and nourished, just like my body, just like my diet, just like everything else. Like if my mind isn't strong, how can I expect to achieve all of the wonderful things that I'm manifesting for my life, right? So, for me, I think it's part of general health to do, whether it's having a therapist, or someone that, you know, a coach that you can lean into, or it's meditating, or it's yoga retreats, or something that, something just to help strengthen your mind. I think that is something that should always, that should be prioritized just as much as any other physical health.- Yeah. I agree. It definitely should be prioritized. It's necessary, I think, for us, you have to grow as human beings as well. Just 'cause we hit a certain age, or that we stop growing and learning, people are, humans are always evolving. Like your life doesn't just stay the same. Change happens all the time. And with that, sometimes we need a little bit of help,'cause it's so easy to be comfortable with habit. And when things are changing, and things start adjusting in your life, it's so important to be able to reach out, and be able to talk to somebody. I always feel like the more you start internalizing all the things, stress kills. You don't want that. You don't (laughs).- Yes. Stress is my nemesis and my best friend, it feels like at some times (laughs).- Likewise. Oh my gosh.(laughs)(chilled music)- And then as we start to kind of wrap up our interview, I've so enjoyed our conversation again, where can people find you? And what's your next move?- Oh, people can find me on Twitter, with @cuddle_core. On Twitch under the same thing, cuddle_core. Instagram, TK, like as in Tekken, _cuddle. So, my next move is, honestly, I'm getting adjusted to the Red Bull life. That has been the biggest thing. My God. Love it. But also, there's tournaments coming up. We're going back offline again. And that is going to be an adjustment for me, because I'm an introvert, but before the pandemic was a thing, I still went to tournaments once every month. And I had my fill with people, and I went back home and I was fine, but I got to see them all the time. So, going from like not really seeing any of my friends from out of state, to not being around massive crowds, to being put back into that will be an adjustment. So, that's gonna be another big move for me, but I'm really excited for all of that. And also just the other opportunities I'm getting, and being able to branch out even more, expanding my brand, using my brand to help influence my community, doing a bit more work with charities, hopefully, but definitely, like very much so, like with the concentration of offline competing,'cause I have like three tournaments coming up, and I just wanna be on my game. I wanna be on that. And I'm really excited, because all the training I've done, the past two years in this pandemic, I've been training, and I'm proud of myself,'cause I've been doing great. Have so many amazing placements, and some first-place finishes. I love it. But now it's time to translate to offline, and let's see what I've got. And you know, I have my coach with me, and my manager, and this is what I wanted, and this is where we are, I just gotta, it's even like kind of embracing that confidence as well, offline,'cause I'm also not just in the comfort of my room anymore, and being around a lot of people, given everything that's happened, is a little overwhelming for me. So, kind of fighting those hurdles as well. Big moves, exciting things, a little scared, a little nervous, but overall, I'm a pro player, man. We adjust to everything. So, I'm excited. I'm excited for it, but I'm gonna be kind to myself, and good to myself, and not overwork myself, so that I can perform to the best level that I can at these tournaments,'cause I really wanna show up and show out.- That's great. I'm very excited for you. We'll definitely be following along and rooting for you. So, congratulations on all of your accomplishments. Again, congrats on Red Bull. So excited to have had the conversation with you today, and just can't wait to see what the future holds for you.- I really appreciate that. And I really appreciate the conversation that we've had here, because I think sometimes we don't really get to the other layers of what it takes to be pro, or it takes to be a professional anything in these spaces, but what also needs to be taken care of, like mental and physical health are so essential. But, yeah, I really enjoyed talking about all of this, because, you know, sometimes, maybe people are afraid to talk about some of these things, but we're having this dialogue here, and maybe they feel a little more comfortable, and that in their experiences, they're not alone, so, thank you so much for having me today.(chilled music)- I want to thank Jeannail for sharing her story with us today. She has such a natural determination and confidence to her personality that is so admirable. Yes, as a professional player competing at the highest level, but also as a woman in any field, hustling to be her very best. I know we touched on this in our conversation, but it was truly so refreshing to have a conversation with someone, who so eloquently and matter-of-fact-ly, could speak to their own success. I have the opportunity to speak with some of the most accomplished and aspirational women in this industry, and it continues to surprise me how many downplay their own achievements. And now I hope listening to cuddle_core speak to her accomplishments, and her future goals, the way that she did, inspires you to get out there and do the same about your own. I hope I see more women, yes, everyone really, but especially women, celebrating their accomplishments, and encouraging others to do the same. I wanna thank Jeannail again for being our guest today, I will be rooting for you in all of your upcoming competitions. Tell everyone else, make sure you get out there, and make your move.(chilled music)