#006: For the season one finale of The Move Makers Podcast, my guest is actor, host and producer, Naomi Kyle. An industry trailblazer, Naomi is arguably one of the most recognizable names in gaming. We discuss the evolution of her creative career and how she maximizes her entrepreneurial opportunities by refusing to stay in any one box.
#006: For the season one finale of The Move Makers Podcast, my guest is actor, host and producer, Naomi Kyle. An industry trailblazer, Naomi is arguably one of the most recognizable names in gaming. We discuss the evolution of her creative career and how she maximizes her entrepreneurial opportunities by refusing to stay in any one box.
(gentle music)- Yeah, it's about managing your schedule and not feeling like you need to do like 10 things in a day, really give yourself room to breathe. And that's something that I really got to learn this pandemic. Because I did not give myself enough room to breathe for the longest time. And it's very dangerous, you can burn out.- Actor, Host and Producer, Naomi Kyle is arguably one of the most recognizable figures in the video game industry. And I am so excited to have her as our featured Move Maker today. Now I first met Naomi at TwitchCon in 2019 and I was instantly drawn to her professionalism and her work ethic. I knew from the start that she was someone that I wanted to work with and find opportunities to help support her. Why? Because Naomi is a doer who isn't afraid to branch outside of her box. In fact, that's a conversation that we dive into on today's show. And she may be most popularly known for being a host, but I've always considered Naomi as a savvy media entrepreneur who continues to utilize her diverse range of skills to maximize opportunities for her business. From hosting, and acting, modeling, singing, producing, and pitching new show formats that she is constantly concepting, she isn't afraid to reach outside of her box and try new things. So, let's get to know today's Move Maker, Naomi Kyle.(gentle music) I'm so happy you're here.- I'm so happy to be here. I've been looking forward to this since,'cause you're really good at planning, I just wanna say. You actually were like,"I've got the questions ahead of time." You were like, "Here's your calendar invite." I was like, "This is the dream, makes it so easy."- You're the second person who said that, and to me, it's the biggest compliment because-- It's true.- My whole goal is, like, you are going out of your way, I feel like you are helping me, and so I wanna make sure you're comfortable, I wanna make sure you're prepared. I hate going into situations where I'm like, what's going on?- I don't know.- I'm here.- So many people do it like that too, where they're just like,"We're used to doing this on the fly on our own time so we don't really accommodate people that, we're just like,'Here's the address, see you there. Oh, wait, I forgot to give you this. Oh, I forgot to give you that.'" You're just on the ball with everything, you make it so smooth. Yes!- I appreciate that. Awesome. Well, to get us started, why don't you introduce yourself to everyone?- So my name's Naomi Kyle, and I've been mostly a host, on-camera host, not somebody who hosts a restaurant obviously, but I do a lot of like on-camera hosting for video game companies. Primarily my one gig that kind of launched my career was "IGN." I did so many videos for them, I don't know, probably in the thousands, and would host their daily news show called "The Daily Fix" for pretty much every day of my life up until 2017. So 2011 to 2017, I was there seven years and decided to branch out and do my own thing. And now I do producing, I'm launching a music EP, I still do hosting a lot, and influencer stuff, but trying to branch out and do different things now.- One thing that I'm always so impressed by with you, and I think I've said this to you before is that you're not afraid to try new things and to reach outside of your box, if you will. I think a lot of people feel the pressure of like,"I'm a host, I need to stay as a host." Or "I talk about games, I need to only talk about games." But who else do you know is like,"I wanna release an EP."- I know.- Hey, tell me more about that.- Right. Well, I totally agree with you that for the longest time it was like, "Stay in your lane, you're good at hosting, just do that, it's your bread and butter." And it kind of was a thing at "IGN" where there were other musically talented people and they would release albums and different style of music than me, but I still got inspired by that. And I think for me, it was just like, well, it also has to do with my background. So I started in music before anything else, right after high school I got into a music program at Vanier College in Montreal, and it's really hard to get into but I barely passed the line and I got in. And so I did a year of classical and jazz vocal training, training the voice itself, and it required ear training classes and theory, which was the part of the music side I didn't really understand as much. Because where I went to school, primarily there was no music program, there was not a lot of art stuff, so I kind of came in blind. I didn't have private courses either. I kind of tacked on a couple of private courses before I went to the audition for the program, but it took me a minute to get used to learning theory and ear training. And so for me it was like this big challenge I ended up quitting because I was like,"I'm barely passing my classes and I need to do something that's hopefully gonna actually make money down the line." So I was like,"Oh yeah, film. Perfect. So easy." So I did film communications. It did have a communication side which was more media training or learning about the commercial side of film and video, graduated with that. And so that's kind of my background. It's always been a part of me. I always have been super big into music, always loved singing, that was my instrument, and I was always in musical circles too. Throughout all of college I was working at Steve's Music Store, which is a very famous Montreal store where you can go buy guitars, drums, guitar strings. I was mostly a sales person on the weekends during college selling guitar strings and tuners, and guitar straps and a bunch of stuff like that. And for me it was this really cool job that I had that I did that was still in the music scene, but not actually pursuing musical stuff, and then I was doing college on the side. And so for me it was always just a part of me. And so when I finally quit IGN, I had already been working a bit on my own doing garage band songs and working with other producers. I had a producer friend from college and stuff, and we were kind of playing around with some songs. I don't know, I've been holding onto some of those songs on the EP for five years. And so it took me that long to finally release it and say,"Okay, I'm ready to put it out there." But it is a nerve-wracking thing 'cause it's not what you're known for, and music is a very vulnerable thing and I don't think people realize it. When you're putting yourself out there and singing a song and putting your heart out, I don't know, it's vulnerable, it's like, ooh.- Well, I've listened and I thought it was awesome.- Aw, thank you. I think your voice is so angelic and sweet.- Aw, thanks.- So I really enjoyed it. And I was able to learn something new about you. Did you find that your community reacted similarly?- Yeah. They were all like, "What, you can sing?" And they all really had some positive stuff to say. There's the, of course troll outlier person who's gonna say something negative, but I really held onto the fact that I really like this music, and it doesn't really matter if anybody doesn't like it.'Cause it could have totally backfired where people were like,"This sucks, why are you putting this? Stop, stay in your lane, do your thing." Yeah, it was surprising to see how many people reacted positively to it. I was reached out to my old coworkers from IGN, kind of funny. I'm sure you know who they are, they're like game, you know, Greg Miller and Tim Gettys. And I worked alongside those people for many years, and so when they heard the music, they were like,"We need to have her on the podcast." And so they were so excited and they were talking so nicely about the music. They were like, "Oh my God." Sometimes you never know when somebody diverts that abruptly from their career path what it's gonna sound like, but there's a curiosity there. And so they were like,"Well, we're gonna listen to this and see if it's good." And it turned out it was really good, and they were just very nice about it.- I'm so glad. But I think too, whenever I think about all that you do, I feel like it's safe to say, you always probably are juggling, I would say anywhere from, I don't know, three to five different projects or streams of revenue even.- Oh yeah.- So I think whenever you're an entrepreneur and you're a creative entrepreneur, it's really important to display all that you can do and have all of your kind of talents available.'Cause I mean, you said you're a host but you're also an actor, you're a producer, you're a business person.- Oh my gosh. I wear so many hats.- Talk to me about that because I think it's a balance, but there aren't many people I know who can successfully come out with different things outside of their lane, if you will, and find success. So what's that like for you and how do you balance it?- Oh, man. Well, it's very stressful, but I do have the benefit of my fiance, Kyle, for example, huge help in terms of handling some of the business stuff. Because nowadays you're expected to be the whole business, whereas before,'cause not a lot of people did, especially talent stuff, it was like you had a team, and I felt like there were less opportunities for people to run their own businesses. It was a lot harder to start your own business. Now there's so many, just the internet has opened up the world to people where you can just do many things, and it is kind of overwhelming as one person to have to navigate that and, I don't know, just learn all these different sides of you. I learned film communications, I didn't learn how to be a business person, I didn't learn how to do your taxes, or how to be an accountant or what people to contact for that. So I really am relying on, and I kind of took this approach from, I don't remember who told me this, but how a lot of people who are big stars like Lady Gaga or whatever, they rely on so many different people and the talent of other people. They aren't expected to know everything. So I was like,"Okay, I'm gonna hire a really good accountant. I'm gonna rely on other people's knowledge to kind of help support me."'Cause for a minute there, it was kind of overwhelming, and it's like, now you're your own bookkeeper, you're your own business person, you have to manage your schedule, you have to do all these different things. And I think just coming down to kind of just understanding I'm not expected to do all of this, and it's a lot for one person, and being able to lean on other people and not being afraid to do that.'Cause you can get bogged down by the pressure of everything that you have to do and keep tabs on. And even then, there's still things that I fall by the wayside or I drop the ball on, and it really isn't fun, but I try to pick it back up and hopefully, most of the stuff is behind the scenes, nobody really gets to see where I do completely like,"Oh shoot, I completely like," can we swear on this podcast? I don't know.- But like-- Be yourself.- You can't expect to be on top of everything. And I did pride myself for a long time having IGN as the place that really did have my back for a long time where I could lean on them for everything, like questions about the industry, or "Mrs. Interview, can you help me with scheduling in the future?" Whatever, I'm just like throwing some ideas out there. But I think losing that and then having to pick up all the things that they were helping support at the time on my own, there was a learning curve. And so if somebody is going in and doing the same thing as I am or trying to be their own person, run their own business, just know there's gonna be some stumbling blocks along the way, and just be very open to leaning on other people for help. And I have my fiance, but I have friends who I've reached out to and have been very nice and offered their advice for free, and kind of pull together the pieces that you need to have a stable business. When it comes to branching out and doing music and stuff, I mean, luckily the pandemic did help where I had more time to commit to that. But yeah, it's about managing your schedule and not feeling like you need to do 10 things in a day, really give yourself room to breathe. And that's something that I really got to learn this pandemic because I did not give myself enough room to breathe for the longest time. And it's very dangerous, you can burn out and stuff like that.- I did burn out in the pandemic.- I think we had a conversation about that.- I can 100% relate.- Kyle runs his own business too, and I'm like,"Be careful of burnout."'Cause it happened to me. It's a scary thing, and you don't really realize when it's happening, and it's almost too late once you do realize. So just give yourself room to breathe, and you don't have to do everything in this block of time, really space it out because you'll see that your work actually improves.- I think women especially have this internalized perspective that we have to do it all to be successful. And that's something that, as we kind of get more mature and we go through our career and we realize that we can't be expected to be experts in everything just because there's a need for it. And I also think that's growth in terms of leadership too. Because a leader isn't someone who does all the things, a leader is someone who makes sure that the things get done right. And so if you're leading your business by bringing in people you trust to do what you need to get done that you know you're not the strongest at, so you can make more time for the things that you're really good at-- Exactly.- And the things that bring in money, that's being a leader, that's managing your business. And I think that's a really big lesson.- Oh yeah. I mean, once I had clicked into that, I was like,"Okay, now I can focus on what I actually do." And that's hosting, that's the acting side, that's producing stuff, that's making shows. I'm working on this radio show now, it's like I'm scripting a show, but I have helped with another writer who's gathering the stories and I can go in and do the little, you know, make it Naomi kind of thing. And I'm working alongside people who work in radio to help me 'cause I'm by no means an expert when it comes to how production works on that side of things. I think it's so important, to your point that, and as women too, we're expected to be all the things because we're kind of new to this world of business. And for the longest time we weren't allowed to have this kind of freedom. And so we're also kind of learning the steps of how to be a good business person. And sometimes people do work, their job is a salary job, but they don't have to work eight hours a day, there's need for rest, there's need for creative endeavors to get the creative juices flowing, whether you're a creative director or whatever you do. It's not something that we are used to because we're so new to it and we feel like we need to prove ourselves. And I feel like we've come a long way, this is kind of an old conversation, but I still think it's relevant. And we're also expected to have kids and run a family, even men have the whole, they have the other side of the spectrum where they're trying to learn how to be parents and how to step away from the business world and be full-time at home dad or whatever it might be. So we're finally both teaching each other how to be in the spaces that we, for the longest time, weren't allowed to be a part of.- And he makes another really good point where it's like, beyond just managing your business, there's also these expectations of being a woman in business. Because you're still expected to be feminine, and you're still suppose to be kind, and to have kids and get, I struggle a lot with that because I've definitely been subjected to feminine stereotypes throughout my childhood. But even as a child I never was like,"Why would you say that because I'm a girl I have to do X?" I was always questioning that-- That's good.- 'Cause I never understood it, and I still don't. And I've had a couple of conversations where it's even in the workplace or in a business setting, there are times that I have to check myself for how I communicate, because there's something that will be so blatantly disrespectful or inappropriate that someone just doesn't even realize that they're saying. I'm curious your thoughts as an entrepreneur, as someone who has talent'cause I'm sure you're subjected to that a lot. Maybe I'm just assuming, let me know. But how have you kind of navigated the expectations or people trying to put Naomi in a box that she doesn't want to be in? How do you kind of navigate those conversations?- Oh, man. Thank you so much for saying that,'cause for the longest time I was expected to do the hosting and not really participate in the creative, or the back end, or the conversations that were happening in the meetings leading up to the production. And it was very frustrating near the end, but I did find a way to kind of put my foot in the door and say,"Hey guys, I wanna be a part of this process too." I'm just as important to the creative as I am hosting it and stuff, and as much as they are. So I felt like I did have to learn to be a bit more, I was very afraid of conflict and like you said, being very nice, and being very kind and easy to work with, and not be a burden and all that stuff. So I definitely had that, not only from my upbringing, but being a Canadian and always apologizing for stuff. And it took me a while. There's some people who are just born with that I'm-not-afraid-of-conflict mentality, but I just did not have that, I ran from it every chance I could. So I had to take a few leaps of faith and kind of bite the bullet and deal with the anxiety of being direct, not direct, but there's a way of speaking that's like, you're being assertive and you're making sure that you're getting your needs first met but also understood, and also to ask for something that you want. And sometimes you're just so afraid to make someone uncomfortable or whatever it is. I'm always taking care of the other person, not so much for me. And so having to be that person in the room that says,"This is what I want, and this is what I think should happen" and to kind of break out of my shell, so to speak. Because I, for the longest time, was always accommodating."Yeah, I can do that. Yeah, I can do that." There was never a hard line of me saying no. And I think for me, learning to say no which I know fits in so many different contexts, but in the context of business we're talking about here, it was an important thing that I had to learn, and it took a couple of fights. This is a long story, I probably won't get into it, but I had some folks I worked with in the industry that crossed some lines and I had to say things to them. Legally there were some stuff that weren't kosher and I had to go and put a hard line down and say this isn't right or say this is wrong. And it was very scary, and I was nervous, and my palms were sweaty, and I had nightmares about it the night before. But once I got over that hump and realized that I could do that, man, my whole world changed. And now I'm not afraid to say anything. It just took a lot of struggle, and trying to slowly but surely breakthrough this old habit of just always accommodating the other person and not really looking out for me. And that's like a vague way of putting it. I mean, I could tell you a more direct story, but I feel like at that point it's getting into the weeds about stuff. But you know what I mean?- Yeah, for sure. And I'm proud of you for stepping up, I know that's hard.- It was hard.- It sounds like you were supported throughout the process.- Yes. I don't think I could have done it without the support of the people I had around me who, they had a good line. They were like,"This is wrong, you need to stand up for this."- I'm so glad.- Listen to the people around you who say stuff like that,'cause they do have your best interests at heart and they just know a little bit more about how to stand up for yourself. And for the longest time as, maybe just me, but also maybe other women out there relate, but it's like, you could get sucked into this idea of being this one thing, and this perfectly easy to work with, never says no, always down to do whatever. But at some point there has to be a line and you have to be able to speak up for yourself in a business sense, but also just in your everyday stuff.- 100%. I think one thing I struggle, but kind of the opposite side. Because I think, I've never had a problem with conflict.- You're not conflict averse?- I'm not out searching for fights, but I also I'm the kind of person that like, I'm very matter of fact and I'm very direct with my communication.- Good.- And I wasn't always that way early in my career, but I just reached a point, I think too, I have been continuously influenced by my husband.- Oh yeah.- And so, we're in similar fields, and he's very, very intelligent and very about his business, and seeing the way that he communicates, I'm like,"There's no reason why I can't communicate that way." And so, I kind of took that approach because it's like, I'm going into this communicating in a way that is expected of me, and what I need to do is go in and communicate in a way that gets my job done, because that's, at the end of the day, the most important thing.- It is.- And so sometimes I think my underlying fear, I'm at the point where it's like, "This is me." I'm unapologetically who I am.- Yeah, same.- But I also know there are times I have to also remind myself that, I think I said this actually in a response recently, but it's like, I can't go into a conversation expecting every person I speak to, to know what I know. And I have to remind myself that more often than not, people, men, especially in this conversation, their intention isn't to offend me, but they just may not know how to talk to someone like me. And so I think sometimes it makes people a little nervous, like, "What am I gonna say," like, "I wanna get it right." So I feel like I am at a point now where I've gone from opposite ends, I need to kind of scale back-- Go back in the middle.- Just to be a bit more my approachable self.- See I was too approachable and too easy to talk to, so that was the fear. I was so afraid of going this way, where now I'm too far to one side where I'm just like cutting people off and I'm being hard to deal with, or just kind of prickly, so, that was the big fear. And I think you're right in that. It's like finding that balance of just your kind self, good nurtured self, and then your more business savvy self where you can be assertive and you could be direct about stuff you want. It's not like,"Well, I think we should do something." It's like, "I wanna do this, done in a..." It's like that. And it's hard to put into context'cause it's like you kind of have to, it's hard to explain it to people, like how to be, but it just takes practice.- But I think too, the more in your career that you go, the more you just know what needs to be done.- Also.- So I think surrounding yourself with people who can take that from a strong woman, is just as important. Because usually it's not me, it's not you, it's how other people react to, and that's just life in general, that's human nature. We're always having to navigate actions.'Cause it's just like acting. Every action is a reaction. So it's like, "Why am I reacting this way?" That's what I often will ask myself."Why am I really angry? Why am I really irritated?"- Was this triggering?- And so then I have to take a step back. I'm like, "Okay, the intention is good. Let me see if I can use this as an opportunity." But yeah, I'm right there with you. And I'm glad that with the situation you brought up earlier, it helped to kind of get you through a hump, that you kind of are able to move forward knowing how to navigate the situation.- Yeah. And just to let people know, it's okay if you're nervous about that, it's totally understandable, it's fricking scary, but once you break the shell, it's exposure therapy. Once you do it, all of a sudden it's like,"Oh my God," a sigh of relief."I did this, I can probably do anything now."(gentle playful music)- "Move Makers" is made possible by PAIDIA Gaming. PAIDIA empowers women and allies of all genders to safely connect, learn and play. When you join PAIDIA, you're unlocking access to an inclusive and kind gaming community, tournaments from your favorite content creators and competitors, along with exclusive content aimed at taking your gaming skills to the next level. Make sure you head over to Paidiagaming.com today to sign up and follow along on social media @Paidiagaming.(gentle playful music) I wanna go back just a little bit because this is something that I want to make sure I'm asking everyone on the show, is like, what was your first move into gaming? Was it the job with IGN or was there like something ahead of that?- There was a little something before that. I said I think in my,'cause you sent me this, you're so great, you sent me this little, basically questionnaire of like breaking down some of the questions you might ask me. It gave me time to think about what was the actual first move. And I think I put modeling or something because that's really what helped me break into it in a weird roundabout way, because throughout college, besides my Steve's Music job and working at the Music Store, I also did modeling on the side,'cause it wouldn't always be happening, there wasn't always a modeling gig for me. So there was time in between where I could do college and work, but sometimes I would get a modeling gig through my agency. And I got into that because I kept getting asked at the Music Store,"You should model." Or, "Can I photograph you?" So I'm like, "I'll finally freaking do it and see if I get into an agency," and I did. My modeling agency hit me up, and this was a very out of the blue, random kind of gig'cause it wasn't common. It was usually just print or magazines or video. But this was for a podcast, for video game company called Gameloft, and they used to be a sister company to Ubisoft. I think they were created by Ubisoft and then they broke away and did their own thing. And they do a lot of Ubisoft titles for mobile, it was mobile games. And they're headquartered in Montreal. And so my agent sent me this thing, they're like,"It's for a one-year thing where you would host a show once a month and they just wanna meet you and interview you and see if it's a good fit." And I don't know why they were hitting up a modeling agency for that, it should have been,"We're hitting up for a talent agency of some kind." I'm like,"Okay, this is totally something I could do,'cause I know games and I'm well-spoken in English." People in Quebec sometimes have that, they're English spoken, but you could tell that they're French, whereas I didn't really have that. So I was like,"Okay, I might actually get this." So I went in, met with the host, totally vibed with him. We talked about the games we liked and stuff like that. And then got that gig, which was actually one of the biggest gigs I'd ever gotten as a model because it was a one-year contract. So I hosted that for a year and a half, they extended the contract, but then a year into it I was like, I really like doing this and I'm wondering if there's any other thing I could do that is more like this. To me it was like, I get to be myself on camera and I don't have to be this faceless, personality-less thing. Whereas when you're modeling you're kind of supposed to be this blank canvas. But this was like, I get to show myself and I get to be who I am and be nerdy and geek out about video games. And so I really liked it. And so I started looking around at what other companies did stuff like this and there wasn't a lot in Canada. And the only other place I'd found was IGN and G4, which were out here. And I'm like, "Well, that's crazy, there's no way I'm gonna go to California, at the very least I'll probably go to Montreal, sorry, New York or Toronto." And while I was kind of starting with this idea, and I hadn't really spoken to lots of people about it, I got a Facebook message from Ty Root, one of the producers of the "Daily Fix." I didn't know that he was a producer, but he had hit me up and said,"I do the 'Daily Fix' production and we're looking for new talent." And I didn't even know Jess Chobot had left or anything. And he's like, "We're auditioning for this, would you be interested?" First of all I thought it was totally fake, I'm like, "Somebody found out and just trying to scam me or, I don't know." But then I was like,"Oh no, this is real," got official emails and stuff, worked out, and then auditioned, and then I got into IGN. So I'd say my first foray was Gameloft and that was through modeling which is, I know, not the normal way and it's not an unexpected route to take and t's not like if you become a model you might end up being an on-camera host for a big video game website. But for me, that was the path that I ended up taking.- But I think that's what I love about asking this question because no answer is the same.- Never.- And more often than not it's like,"I set out to do something completely different." Or, "I was doing this for fun." Or, "I never thought that this would turn into a career." And I also think the timing, I think you said 2011.- Was when I got IGN.- Okay.'Cause that's really at the explosion of social media and the internet.- Instagram and Twitter were still-- Very.- Just starting and still little babies.- Can you talk about growing with social media, kind of starting your career at the same time that social media was like at its start?- Yikes! I think I still had a MySpace when I got hired at IGN. It was crazy. And I think a lot of the growth that IGN saw was also because of social media. I mean, for me it was something that was happening kind of in the background and was made part of my job in a weird way of,"Okay, we want to make sure that our talent have a social presence" and stuff like that. So a lot of my job was making sure I'm posting every day. But it was scary and it was also kind of cool'cause I got to see all these really cool people doing their own thing, then SourceFed evolved, and then "Nerdist" and other places started growing. And for me it was like this thing that was happening, but it was kind of hard to piece together what was actually happening. I wish I had had a better understanding of what I know it is now of like,"Oh, this is actually gonna blow up." And make YouTube content, some people were trying to push me towards that, do some YouTube videos and stuff, and I was so nervous to do it on my own. And I was like, "I don't know, it's kind of just a weird thing. I don't know if I wanna do this." And it was kind of a scary, weird thing. I wish I had a better perspective, but really I was so caught up in the job side of hosting the show, that this was just this thing that was kind of happening without my control and without my knowledge. I wasn't on top of it as I should have been, knowing how big it is now. And I guess that's my biggest takeaway, really. Just thinking back, I wish I had a better understanding of how important it would be now. And I only found out much later how much money could be made too, of being an influencer. I think I started that, maybe my fifth or sixth year, at IGN of doing #ad and then sponsored stuff. But I was growing into myself, and I think that was the big thing for me. Some people know who they are when they graduate high school, I didn't know who I was really until 30. So I feel like now I'm ready. I feel like now I am who I thought I was back then.'Cause I've let go of a lot of stuff, a lot of preconceptions about who I am and about what I wanna be.- Yeah, I can relate to that.- Okay, good. Let's talk, let's get into it.- No, no, it's just I can really relate to feeling, I've always been about myself, I've been ambitious. I knew I wanted to, I grew up in a small town in Florida. I love my home and my family.- Small town too, so you know-- It's very different.- It's so different.- And I kind of graduated to a bigger suburb, to then Atlanta, to then Los Angeles.- Big city now.- And all during that time I was discovering myself more in my twenties because I wasn't home and I was so far removed from what I came from.- Me too.- And so, I think there was this discovering of who am I, because where I'm from and where I'm at are just so different. Does that makes sense?- Yeah, that makes sense. It's like cognitive dissonance or something. It's a bit weird cause you're, I grew up, even I go back home now and it's like, "Whoa." I still see what I used to be and I still get a picture of what my life could have been. Growing up in a tiny town, my parents still live below the poverty line, they're very poor and it's like, where I'm at now, it almost scared me at first. I would cry sometimes because I'm like thinking about how much my parents make a year, and I make a lot more than that. And I was just like,"How is this possible?" And it scared me for a bit because I was so far removed from that person. The other mistake I made though, doing that, coming from a small town was I made my whole career my who I am. And that was a mistake. I didn't really know who I was without it. Am I touching on something?- I spoke with Stephanie Pelusa, Steph and Johnny recently, and she made a really good point about her transition from YouTube to Twitch. Because whenever she was YouTube, she was the product. Whenever she made her transition, she's like,"I went from being the product to producing a product." And that made all the difference for her mentality, her mental health.- Good.- So it sounds like that's something similar for you.- Yeah, because now, yes, exactly. I'm the one who's creating the stuff, versus being the the puppet, so to speak. And yeah, my whole identity for longest time was IGN and that was my life. And so when I, I didn't lose that, I purposely left, I made a decision I was no longer gonna be only IGN all the time, and it was scary and first of all, on a personal level, made me deal with a lot of stuff I wasn't able to deal with while I was working there. I had repressed a lot of stuff, a lot of trauma that I had experienced while working there in my personal life, I'd never really fully processed, and then I left IGN and then it all kind of came swooping in. So just be aware if that's who you are and you've been at a job for a long time, and that's been your whole identity, things might resurface'cause now you don't have that anymore. But yeah, when I left IGN I was finally given this space of like,"What am I now that I don't have IGN?" And it was rediscovering what I like and what makes me me, and what kind of content I actually do like watching.'Cause I was so entrenched in that world of video game reviews and how to make that content like IGN. And so now it's like,"How do I make content like I like?" And, "What do I like?" And it was this whole rediscovery of who I was. Coming from a small town you just never know what path you're gonna take, and it can take you down a crazy wild ride.- Yes.- Just be ready.- Be ready. We started by talking about feeling, I think more of yourself in your thirties, and I really feel that way too, and it makes me, it's so strange to say-- Excited.- It makes me excited for my 40s.'Cause it's like, I feel about my business and I feel like I'm gonna go into that next decade, which is still a ways away. 10 years from now I'll look back and be like, "Yes!" Is I think too, so many people feel like,"This is the path I started, I got to see it through." I've pivoted my path so many times and I feel like-- That's good.- You've really created your own path too. And that, it takes courage and confidence and a savvy that you have to trust in yourself to make happen. Because at the end of the day, you are the one setting out to accomplish this. And so I think there's something really special that entrepreneurs have that, maybe it doesn't really go respected or noticed by most people, but what you present to the world, for the products you produce and your EP releases and your voice, acting, the things that you put out, that you put in that effort to, people only see the finished product. They don't see the strategy, they don't see the endless conversations of internal dialogue you've had with yourself to get to that point. So I think it's just the balance and the confidence, even if there are moments of nervousness, which is completely human, but it's like, you're still doing it.- You're taking that jump.- Hm mm.- Like you said, you pivoted a lot. I stayed stuck at IGN for so long, and I feel like I could have left sooner, but it's a good thing I did when I did because I had to learn so quickly how to be my own business person and jump into the avenues I wanna jump into. And yeah, people only see the finished product, but that EP took essentially five years to make. Because I'd started little songs here and there on my garage band at home, sat on those, wasn't sure of how I felt about it, made a few friends listen to it, got their feedback. And then it took years later for me to partner up with my friend from college, Mark Bella, and actually produce some more current day style music. All that stuff just totally, once it's out there into the ether it's like, and that's why it took me so long, I guess five years of working up the courage to do it,'cause that for me was a completely different endeavor. But when it comes to producing a show or doing a podcast, that's turnkey, I'll get that done in a week or something. But yeah, there's a lot of work that is involved behind the scenes of working on yourself, then working on the business side of yourself, working on making sure your business is structured properly. There's so many different things.- And I think it's okay to know that no path to that is the same-- That's right.- And that you will mess up.- Oh yeah. I mess up all the time.- Oh yeah.- I don't want people to see it very often, but I mess up a lot.- Well, you nailed this. Definitely. You definitely did.- So tell us what's going on next for you? What's your next move and where can people find you?- Ooh, boy. Still figuring that out. Sometimes you don't know what you're doing and you don't have a goal set in place. Like I said, I'm working on that radio show. That's still in the process of being worked on. Basically, if it turns out to be the way I hope, it's gonna be a quick, not quick, but 30 minutes of gaming news plus interviews dealing with the gaming news of that week. So still in my vein of doing gaming news and talking about video games, but it's going to hopefully live on several channels and through iHeartRadio on their stations, and hopefully across the globe. So that's the hope.- That's exciting.- And then little bites of the news happening throughout the week of course, throughout their other shows. So that's kind of what we're developing right now. And besides that, I think the goal also for the radio show is to get people, not people who are in the gaming industry, but people who are outside who might be intimidated by the space or who wanna learn more because of their kids or whatever, to have a show that they can go to just stay up to speed on stuff. And I feel like there's still a feeling, like I've spoken with some of my neighbors where I moved and it's like,"Oh, you're in games, so, you make it?" They still don't understand what we do and they don't understand, they still text me like,"Oh, what should I get my kid? They just got a Switch, should I get digital or physical games?" And like these kinds of questions. So helping them kind of get a regular up-to-date update on what's going on in this space so that they're at least a little bit in the know, and very focused on stuff that's mainstream, not super in the weeds about stuff, we're not going to talk about League or anything like that. So that's something I'm working on. I know I'm running long right now, but the EP is still out there. If you want to listen to it, it's on all streaming platforms for music, Apple, Spotify, and not on SoundCloud yet though, I do want to get it on there. But the plan with that is I have met with a manager who wants to help me develop a whole album and market the whole thing. And so we'll see where that goes. I mean, this would be a total side thing'cause I do wanna step more into the mainstream, more traditional hosting space. So, talking more TV stuff, streaming platform stuff, and try to get back into auditioning as well. But you can find me on Twitch and Twitter and YouTube and Instagram and Facebook.- Awesome.- @NaomiKyle. That's where you find out everything that's going on with me.(gentle music)- I want to extend a big thank you to Naomi for sharing her story with all of us. She's such an inspiration to me and someone that I personally look up to, especially whenever it comes to putting myself out there. And I hope that our conversation also inspires you to peek outside of your box and consider expanding your own skills, try something new that you've always felt was out of reach. And I also want to take a moment to thank you for listening to the very first season of the "Move Makers" podcast. This is our season one finale. And I want to extend another thank you to all of the incredible women who shared their stories with us throughout the season, and of course to you for taking the time to listen and join in on our conversation. We're already gearing up for future seasons, so if you have any feedback or would like to nominate a potential move maker, I'd love to hear from you. I can be found @AudreyAdair across all social media platforms. And if you aren't already, I would love if you would join in the conversation at Paidia Gaming for the latest news and updates. Until next time, get out there and make your move.(gentle upbeat music)